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Thread: .416 accuracy woes

  1. #21
    Boolit Bub
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    Ok will do. I will be headed to the range Tuesday weather permitting. I gave the bore another thorough cleaning just to be certain it was free of fouling. If I could get this combo accurate enough for hogs and black bears with a lighter load I would call it a win. Just looking for the satisfaction of bagging something with my own boolits.

  2. #22
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    I have a good bit of IMR-4895 I can work up loads with as well as the748. Would Varget be a possible option?

  3. #23
    Boolit Master TurnipEaterDown's Avatar
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    The "front end" of a 416 Ruger chamber looks like it doesn't have any notably "bad" characteristics for cast bullets.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I don't have a 416 Ruger, but do have a 416 Taylor, so maybe comments on that would be of use in solving your issue.

    I tried 11 different powders for velocities in my 416 Taylor under a 375 gr cast bullet (Accurate 42-360C mold, my alloy lubed & checked 375 gr, sized 0.417", water quenched likely brinell ~ 20 as I tested other bullets w/ similar alloy mix).
    I used this bullet for powder evaluations (selection of powder to use under this & other bullets as well) and also for groups for something "cheap(er)".

    I had good luck w/ stick powders IMR 3031, 4895 & 4064 for groups (5 shots, generally 1.25" - 1.875", 100 yds) when velocity was ~ 1900 fps. Above that, accuracy went south. I didn't weight sort bullets, just looked them over before finishing in sizer. I didn't try to maximize velocity for groups w/ cast (i.e. I didn't tinker w/ sizing & alloy), I just switch to Jacketed for max performance.

    Didn't really like the behavior of ball H335, W748 or W760 in the 416 Taylor. Energy progression against charge weight was not smooth.
    I did not shoot groups with these powders due to this behavior and the fact that I usually get better accuracy w/ cast using stick than ball (multiple other cartridges, but extrapolating that could just be my bias).

    I didn't shoot Varget for groups, did for velocity, but (in the Taylor) it cracked a primer in velocity tests before I reached target energy (happened at 4000 ft*lb, I target max at 4600 ft*lb).

    I liked the behavior of RL 17 in this cartridge and the 35 Whelen Improved, which I think many would scoff at. Would not dismiss trying it in the 416 Ruger. One of my favorites in that 35, and it gave very predictable behavior in Taylor w/ nice fill ratio.

  4. #24
    Boolit Bub
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    That's good info. I have also not weight sorted but weighed random samples of my boolits. They generally came out very close in weight after I figured out how to cast consistently with no wrinkles or other defects. Others have also suggested to keep the velocity down a bit. This is my first real attempt at load development with cast boolits. The Taylor is similar enough to the Ruger that some sources use the same data for both. Thank you,

    Howard

  5. #25
    Boolit Master BABore's Avatar
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    Search for "Hardcast416taylor" on this forum. He is no longer with us, but has a lot of good information on the 416 Taylor. I designed and built one of the original boolit designs he used. I now own his rifle and got it just before he passed. I'm using the same 400 grain GC boolit that I designed. Sized 0.418. Running it full velocity with IMR 3031. Looked it up. I was using 64 grains of IMR 3031 for 2,250 fps.
    Last edited by BABore; 05-22-2023 at 04:24 PM. Reason: Wrong powder charge given.

  6. #26
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    Loaded 10 rounds with 60.5 grains of IMR 4895. Results were not encouraging. The problem still eludes me. After digging out my notes on the W 748 test loads the results with 4895 were actually a little worse. 10 rounds landed on a 6 inch circle at 100 yards but thats about all I can say. The bolt closes a slight bit hard. Are my boolits oversized?

  7. #27
    Boolit Master BABore's Avatar
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    You said you were going to slug the barrel. Did you?

    You can run a boolit diameter as big as will fit into a preferably once fired case irregardless of groove diameter. Slugging the bore will tell you how much oversize the boolit will be. The barrel makes an excellent sizer. In rare cases, because of brass neck thickness and/or chamber neck dimensions, you can't chamber a boolit big enough for the barrel.

    Bottom line is YOU need to know these dimensions. Nobody here can tell you if your boolit is too big or too small without them.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy

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    Did you actually measure the size bullet or are you assuming it's diameter based on what the sizer die is marked? That could bite your butt too, especially if it's a Lee push through. The "Precision" in their name can be optimistic at times.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master
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    There is no advantage in using cast bullets for serious work in the modern CF rifle. I suppose if you need to stroke your ego and kill something with a bullet you cast, feeding one of the deadly sins (pride) serves as justification.

    I will not even use cast bullets to harvest deer as they are so inferior for how I hunt.

    If I was planning to invest in an African adventure, I would select the best bullets available. A $1.50 a shot for a jacketed bullet seems like a minuscule added cost to hunt Africa.
    Don Verna


  10. #30
    Boolit Bub
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    Very helpful

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub
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    Back to the topic at hand, namely a new boolit caster trying to improve accuracy. I have not yet slugged my barrel. I consider everything you gentlemen say seriously, it will be my next step. I have an rcbs lube/sizer with their dies. I will also measure my boolits for actual dimension instead of relying on the size stamped on the die, I had not really thought of that as an issue.

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy 414gates's Avatar
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    I found velocity is critical with lead bullets in my big bores. I get the best results when I keep the velocity to under 2100 fps. Beyond that the bullets seems to strip in the rifling, and harder lead doesn't make any difference.

    Unless it's paper patched - I've taken my .375H&H to 2400 with 245 grain paper patched cast.

    For my .416 Ruger, I had a custom mould made. It drops 420 grains at .426. I size down in two passes, .421 then a .417 push through sizer.

    Powder coat, no gas check, and lead is BHN 16. Accuracy for me is a clay pigeon at 30 meters.


  13. #33
    Boolit Bub
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    I got my best accuracy so far with the highest velocity load I tried. Slowing it down really spread out the pattern. Mind you this was with 2 different powders so more variables involved. My next shooting session I will take the chronograph and get a better flavor for how velocities are really running. This is a lot of info. I am inclined to change 1 thing at a time and see what happens. Will measure actual boolit diameter next

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    If it was me I'd try a powder so slow that there were unburned granules left in the bore.
    And I'd be very calculating about the width of the lands versus the grooves and how much lead I could stick up the bore.

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy 414gates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planeguy View Post
    I have a good bit of IMR-4895 I can work up loads with as well as the748. Would Varget be a possible option?
    Yes, Varget is the burn rate that works in the .416 Ruger. I've used IMR 4166 which is very close to Varget.

    Quote Originally Posted by Planeguy View Post
    Loaded 10 rounds with 60.5 grains of IMR 4895. Results were not encouraging. The problem still eludes me. After digging out my notes on the W 748 test loads the results with 4895 were actually a little worse. 10 rounds landed on a 6 inch circle at 100 yards but thats about all I can say. The bolt closes a slight bit hard. Are my boolits oversized?
    4895 is a little quick, IMO, retry that load with Varget for a lower pressure curve. 748 seems to be a Varget equivalent, but I have no experience with it.

    You're not saying if you're shooting off-hand, iron sights or scope, or bench.

    10 rounds into 6 MOA is not bad for the caliber at 100, especially off-hand. 10 rounds one after the other is great recoil management.

    The Alaskan is capable of sub-moa with jacketed bullets and a scope off a bench, pretty much any relevant bullet / powder combination.


  16. #36
    Boolit Bub
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    Rifle has a 1-6 X VariX6 HD leuo on it. Fired off of a lead sled rest. Jacketed bullets are no problem but thats another issue. Varget is my next plan for powder. Still need to establish actual bore diameter.

  17. #37
    Boolit Bub
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    My boolits measure at .418 will be slugging the barrel as soon as I can find some soft lead.

  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I love Varget but it is not easy to get. I am saving mine for loads that matter.

    Another powder that is similar to Varget is 4064. It is a tad faster. One of my criteria for a powder is that it not be temperature sensitive as I can be shooting in -20 to 95 degree conditions. 4064 exhibits a 20 fps variation over a temperature difference of 100 degress.

    Might another option for you and it should be a bit cheaper and easier to get.
    Don Verna


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check