Why use over powder wad?

[dtknowles]

Why do people use an over powder wad? Seems unnecessary. I don't use one in a muzzleloader. Why would I put one in a cartridge? Waste of space, added component and more useless weight to be propelled out the barrel.
Tim

[38-72]

Short answer: Because my gun is more accurate when I use a wad.

[Harter66]

It derives from BP and shot shells .
In BP it keeps the lube out of the powder and provides a buffer between lube cookies bullet and powder .
It's part of the wad stack in shot shells and likely in it's original form the same as in BP .

For some users it's seal , spacer , filler , and possibly even a gas check . If I had the right hole punches it would be a base card for paper patch rolled inside the patch .

[indian joe]

Short answer: Because my gun is more accurate when I use a wad.

this !!!!!!

[freakonaleash]

Keeps gas from cutting the base of your bullet and leading your barrel. I only use a card in rifle cartridges. Doesn't seem to make much difference in revolvers. I often shoot gas checks instead of using a card If I have a mold and get good black powder results.

[William Yanda]

Yeah, but I cross my fingers, stand on one foot, put my thumb on my nose, all in pursuit of of some unnamed goal.

[dogrunner]

And just what's wrong with puttin' your thumb on your nose ??

[dtknowles]

Short answer: Because my gun is more accurate when I use a wad.

Yeah, I can get with that. So, do you start without the wad and then add it if you don't get good accuracy or do you just use a wad and assume it helps. Seems like a lot of testing. I have been using a wad with my 450 BPE but going without the wad in 12.7x44R and have acceptable accuracy but then I am not shooting matches. These guns have express sights, you know the folding leaves type with no adjustment except drifting in the dovetails.

Somebody mentioned grease cookie. I have not use them. I guess that is to control fouling. Again, not something I used in a muzzleloader. Again, not shooting matches so fouling is not really an issue either. Except for testing most I would expect to shoot in action would be 2 or three down each barrel. Locally the rolling block qualifies as primitive so old muzzleloading seasons and rules apply.

[indian joe]

Yeah, I can get with that. So, do you start without the wad and then add it if you don't get good accuracy or do you just use a wad and assume it helps. Seems like a lot of testing. I have been using a wad with my 450 BPE but going without the wad in 12.7x44R and have acceptable accuracy but then I am not shooting matches. These guns have express sights, you know the folding leaves type with no adjustment except drifting in the dovetails.

Somebody mentioned grease cookie. I have not use them. I guess that is to control fouling. Again, not something I used in a muzzleloader. Again, not shooting matches so fouling is not really an issue either. Except for testing most I would expect to shoot in action would be 2 or three down each barrel. Locally the rolling block qualifies as primitive so old muzzleloading seasons and rules apply.

I started without wads - shot that way for a good while - then one day some SA told me you can never get a cowboy gun to shoot good enough to be competitive at longrange - he might have been right but that got up my nose anyway. I started to get serious with a Uberti 1876. Once I had a load sorted out overpowder wads took it from shooting 3inch groups at 100yards to 2 inch or a tad better (if I did my bit which wasnt always!)

Really I doubt you will pick it with open leaf sights (I couldnt anyway) I have a good tang sight and a tunnel front sight with target inserts on that gun.

Lube cookies ? they are a substitute for a poor choice in boolits = a design that does not carry enough grease to do the job properly in the first place. I refuse to use em - they are a PITA - lube bleeds into the powder - wads stick to the boolit base - go get a decent boolit !!!

Something you might need to pay attention to - where does the first shot (clean barrel) go in relation to the next couple (follow up shots) I would put two targets up side by side and let those three rip just like if you were hunting, first shot into one target then rip the follow up shots into the second target - some guns wont be much different others might put that cold, clean bore shot 4 to 6 inches away from the follow up - need to know this I reckon.

[missionary5155]

And a cereal box wad takes care of issues in our 50-95-350 down to a 44 Wesson.
We strive to cast a "perfect / square" base, then explode / slam hard BP grains into it ?

[country gent]

One that hasnt been mentioned is before shooting.I put the heavy wad in before I compress the charge, it seems to give a better compression and surface for the bullet to sit on.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

To reiterate. Let your rifle tell you if it wants a wad or not. I only shoot the 44WCF and out to a maximum of 200 meters. I tried wads of a few different materials and thicknesses. No wad was always more accurate. This is with my rifle, Swiss 2f and a charge of 37gr (more or less). I know that 45-70 and other big bore rifle cartridges are a different animal. So take my info with a grain of salt.

[indian joe]

To reiterate. Let your rifle tell you if it wants a wad or not. I only shoot the 44WCF and out to a maximum of 200 meters. I tried wads of a few different materials and thicknesses. No wad was always more accurate. This is with my rifle, Swiss 2f and a charge of 37gr (more or less). I know that 45-70 and other big bore rifle cartridges are a different animal. So take my info with a grain of salt.

maybe its the shorter cases? - I never saw an advantage with 44/40 or 38/40 but definitely yes with bigger stuff (45/70 - 45/75)

[dtknowles]

Thanks for all the interest and advice. I think I will stick with wads in the 450 BPE (big case, lots of room and higher velocity). I think the jury is still out on the 12.7x44R, I might do some comparisons with and without. I will be checking clean bore first shot point of impact vs. follow up shots. I don't understand why use two targets, I guess you are thinking no time to spot the first shot before shooting the second one.

Tim

[FrankJD]

Most may find that a .060" LDPE wad will improve accuracy ... it did for me and PPBs.

[indian joe]

Thanks for all the interest and advice. I think I will stick with wads in the 450 BPE (big case, lots of room and higher velocity). I think the jury is still out on the 12.7x44R, I might do some comparisons with and without. I will be checking clean bore first shot point of impact vs. follow up shots. I don't understand why use two targets, I guess you are thinking no time to spot the first shot before shooting the second one.

Tim

yep! let em rip just like ya would in the field then go look. It might not make a difference - but ..........it might . I have a .54 muzzleloader I load hard and it does it every time clean and cold is about 4 inches out of the group - could be a number of things - one into the mound cures the problem. If I was hunting with it I would take the trouble to sight it in for the first shot and correct for the follow up.

[indian joe]

Most may find that a .060" LDPE wad will improve accuracy ... it did for me and PPBs.

I'm using .045 HDPE (salvage from water containers) cant find the low density stuff locally.

[Drydock]

In a muzzleloader, you want the powder ignition to distort the bullet into the rifling. In a cartridge gun, with the bullet already at groove diameter, you want the powder ignition to distort the bullet as little as possible for best accuracy. The larger the powder charge, the more critical this becomes.

[GregLaROCHE]

I like to use a grease cookie so I always use a card on top of the BP before compressing it. Even without a grease cookie, I would use a card if loading greased boolit’s. Maybe you wouldn’t need one if you used PCed boolits.

[Hahndorf1874]

A mate shooting a big barrelled front loader 40 cal, uses a LDP wad on the powder, 40/1 greaser, last time out was shooting sub MOA 100 yds. It one of those under hammer monsters not sure of the brand. Cheers Mal in au.