Which Hardcast Caliber for Hunting Large Whitetail Deer?

[RickinTN]

Get the "hardcast" out of your thinking, it is unnecessary and counter-productive. I used 300 gr pure lead with a paper patch in the .44 Mag, not one critter took a second step after being shot.

I agree with Digital Dan. Hardcast is not what you want. As soft as you can is best for expansion. I have never had anyone be able to tell me what hardcast is. I think you are referring to using cast bullets. The "hard" part should be left off.
Take care, and good luck!
Rick

[Danyo]

Wow thanks for all of the information, stories, and encouragement guys! Lots of great information here to think-over. I have been reading a ton of forum threads lately on this topic and this one has a lot of new info that I had not read about before. Thanks!

[35 Rem]

With a 45 Colt and a light load, you probably lost 200 fps when pointing straight down at the deer's head. It might be 775 fps with a level barrel, but I bet it maybe breaks 600 when pointed down. This is a problem when shooting deer directly below your tree stand in large cases and light loads, or for coup de grace shots.

That might be true with some powders but WW231 is not supposed to be position sensitive and that's what I used in those loads.

[hc18flyer]

I only have one whitetail with my .45 Colt. 275 grain wide flat nose at about 1050 fps, 15 yard shot. Hit high, close to the spine, needed a finishing shot, but didn't take another step. Fairly soft, 10.5 bhn bullet. Complete pass thru. Either of your choices will work fine. I am 64, so my eyesight isn't as good as I like, so I chose a red dot.
hc18flyer

[Bigslug]

For sake of a common milk jug reference:

Typical police duty auto hollowpoints will typically penetrate three. Sometimes you'll get four. Some of the more "pancakey" will stop in two.

I've had 70% meplat diameter 230gr. .45 and 135gr. 9mm a non+P speeds take nine jugs to stop.

Any of your listed options will do, but the revolver's lack of need to mechanically feed a round up a ramp will allow a more aggressive meplat, and possibly, a little faster bleed out as a result.

[Grayone]

Use the one that you shoot best with the loads you have. Make sure you have a good skinning knife and drag rope with you or a two wheel cart handy as you will need it. I highly doubt you will recover a bullet from either.

[ChristopherO]

My first thought when seeing the title of this thread is that hard cast is not needed. Looks like most of the other guys have answered that the same way. Good hunting and post pictures of your dead deer this Fall.

[Digital Dan]

300 grains pure lead, paper patched, .44 Mag at 1,600 fps at the muzzle
https://i.imgur.com/vKm8YMP.jpg

Two broken forelegs, 5 ribs and the heart cut in half.....flop 160# doe at 80 yards
https://i.imgur.com/RENinxM.jpg

[PHyrbird]

I do agree with the 45 kinda guys. Try the Lee 300g gc at about 1000-1200. My hits with 45 have been whap/crash, No step
Course this option won't work with most semi-autos. For that I suggest the 450BM, loveit.

[Digital Dan]

Wow thanks for all of the information, stories, and encouragement guys! Lots of great information here to think-over. I have been reading a ton of forum threads lately on this topic and this one has a lot of new info that I had not read about before. Thanks!

Take a little time and browse this website. http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

[gunseller]

Guess I will be odd guy in this. I cast out of straight WW. 260RNFP in 45Colt doing 1100, 240 SWC in 44 mag doing 1300and 210 also in 44 mag case doing 700. The long shot was with 45 at 200 yards. Broke shoulder going in and broke other shoulder going out. 30 inches of movement, down. Closest shot, kissing range, 240 in 44 in chest out backside about 6 steps. 210 in 44 was just over 100 yards. In left side hit heart out left side. Got a bout 20 yards for movement after shot. I have shot deer and pigs with harder and softer bullets with same results so it is easier to cast straight WW.

[Frank V]

429421 it’ll work for almost everything!

[Tripplebeards]

I sat 85 yards off my property line and shot three deer in a row with a “hard cast” boolit out of 44 mag Ruger 77/44 rifle at 1750 fps loaded with 263 grain cast hollow points. After two ran over a 100 yards with heart and lung shots I changed over to a 35 Rem using soft cast hollow points loaded at 2100 fps. Two out the three deer with the 44 mag rifle went over a 100 yards with little to no blood. Nine if the 44 mag Lyman devastator Boolits expanded. All were Double lung shots. Not impressed to say the least. The third deer dropped but kicked around for 2 minutes because I hit the top of the ribs. The ribs shattered and acted like a fragmenting jacked varmint bullet. It still wasn’t enough energy transfer to instantly kill it. The deer kicked around for 2min before expiring. I used a Lyman devastator with 15.4 BH alloy. None of the boolits ever expanded and acted like FMJs. If you need to drop a deer in the spot, or quickly, so it doesn’t go on the neighbors property imo first I wouldn’t suggest ANY pistol caliber jacketed or cast. Pistols just don’t shoot fast enough fir hydrostatic shock. Just asking for drama imo. If you really want/have to shoot a pistol I’d tell you use a jacketed XTP or similar hollow point. I switched over to a 7.5 BH alloy in my 77/44 and Lyman HP at 1600 fps but haven’t seen a deer to test it on. I’ve shot countless deer at 1900 fps out of my muzzleloaders using 44 and 45 cal pistol bullets and can tell you they ALL run 60 to 120 yards in average using 250 and 300 grain 44 and 45 cal bullets. The following year after my 77/44 three deer harvesting in row within seconds I switched over to a 200 grain hollow point casted at 10.5 bh loaded at 2100 fps out of my 35 Rem. Best thing I ever did! It drops deer where they stand. Imo if you want to drop deer quick first, imo, you need the softest alloy your gun will shoot accurately. Second, your boolit needs to be traveling around the 2000/2100fps mark for a good energy dump. Third, you need need to use the softest alloy you gun will shoot accurately. I know alot of 44 mag pistol users and even with soft expanding, fragmenting,energy dumping, jacked ammo deer normally run at after shot with poor blood trails. To each their own, but I won’t use a pistol on deer any more. IMO a pistol caliber in a rifle still doesn’t dump enough energy for quick kill for me with well placed heart and lung shots. Not enough to drop them to keep them off my neighbors property of which I’m not allowed on to recover my animals. Most pistol calibers just don’t go fast enough to dump energy and provide enough hydrostatic shock for a quick kill. Once in a while someone will get lucky and drop a deer quick. But imo that’s not the normal. If you accidentally backbone, head, or neck by accident then you’ll at least anchor it. If it’s your first go with cast on deer I’d tell you to start with SOFT alloys in a rifle and load around 2,00fps. Good luck, keep us posted on what you decide and how the hunt pans out.

Found my old post with photos. It was a valuable learning lesson fir me.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...my-devastators!!!

I’m sure you can probably find my 35 Rem hollow point with deer wound channels post if you look here on the forum.

[rickt300]

My first cast bullet use was the old 45 caliber Maxi ball made for muzzleloaders cast out of wheel weights and loaded on top of a over maximum load of I4227 in a 45 Long Colt Hawes Western Marshal. Probably getting 1200 fps. I crimped it directly into the front driving band. I used to do a lot of bow hunting from trees in the national forests and used the same stands during gun season. All shots were under 35 yards and placed high shoulder after a behind the shoulder shot doe got into the dewberries causing me a lot of extra work and scratches. She only ran 25 yards. That blunt bullet did a lot of damage. Blood was very present and an exit was guaranteed. This is the only load I have ever used that would tear a pop can in half with one shot. In my opinion either gun you have will do just fine. I would definitely shoot for bone.

[Anchorite]

With your choices, I’d go 44 all day, every day. A good 44 is as good as it gets, and there’s nothing in the lower 48 that a 44 can’t harvest - you doing your part, of course. Load that 240-280 gr hard cast with a 8.5-9.0 grains of Unique and you’re set. HS-6 and 2400 are also good powder choices. Work up loads in your gun.

[Kosh75287]

The old rules of thumb for handgunning deer were:
1.) Nothing smaller than .40 caliber.
2.) Nothing lighter than 200 gr.
3.) Nothing slower than 1000 f/s at the muzzle.

Ordinarily, any of the pistols you mentioned would work, though the .45 ACP load would be something of an exception. Since you hunt where white tail deer can get somewhat on the large side, MY inclination would be to increase the previously listed minimae by 10% at minimum.
This removes both the 10mm and .45 ACP from consideration, since such ballistics are not safely obtainable in either round. On the other hand, a .429" 220 gr. cast projectile at 1100 f/s from the muzzle of your .44 Mag. M69 S&W is likely entirely possible. You may also find that 220 gr. at 1100 f/s is less "flinchy" to shoot than a 240-250 gr. slug at 1000 f/s (or not, but don't rule it out).

[Danyo]

UPDATE: The EAA Witness Hunter (a CZ-75 "clone") feeds and functions 100% with the WFN Double Tap hardcast ammo. For those who may have been curious.

Thanks Digital Dan, I took a long look. And thanks everyone else.

So it sounds like some expansion would be best in my case, and complete penetration is not as important as I thought. So now I am thinking to use Underwood 200 gr. XTPs through my 10mm. Or man-up and use JSP 44 Magnums through the revolver. If I did use hardcast, shoot through the shoulders to drop the deer, or I may have a hard time finding it.

Oh, and I do not cast my own bullets! Haha, I should probably start if I am going to hang out here. The bullets in the OP I was talking about had a BHN of 21 or 22. That's pretty hard, right? These would be more suited for grizzly bear defense? I did not realize it, but the 45acp bullet I was talking about has a BHN of 15. Would that be soft enough to mushroom a bit at it's limited velocity of about 925 fps?

[hades]

21 or 22 is pretty hard.

15 is getting hard enough as well and won't do anything at 45 acp speeds.

10mm is a fun round though and deer hunting is the sole reason I bought one as well!

Naturally after I get mold(s) i haven't shot at a deer since... But I've killed a few with HPs.

[Danyo]

Man, the 44 was shooting well tonight. Any suggestions on cast lead hunting bullets for it that a guy can buy? The ones I am finding online seem to be pretty hard, as in BHN of 18.

[Messy bear]

Number 9 and 14 are pretty good posts.
I think you would be well served by some form of jacketed hollow point to start with in the 44. Load to 1150 and go hunting.
All the deer in all the years we used those HP’s even the super soft old hornady hollow point or the super expanding Rem scalloped HP never failed to exit broadside shots but definitely hit harder than non expanding. The Remingtons were soft enough to gut prairie dogs and send them spinning. We shot a lot of mule deer with them as well. Good all around load.