Which Hardcast Caliber for Hunting Large Whitetail Deer?

[Danyo]

Hey guys,

I have been hunting deer with a shotgun for years, and have done a little bow hunting, but now I want to get into handgun hunting. I am in southern Minnesota, so we have quite large corn-fed deer. I am usually hunting on field edges or in thick woods, within a couple hundred yards of a property line. I can't decide which handgun I should use. I would like to shoot out to 40 yards, ideally.

Right now I have a 4.25" Smith and Wesson Model 69 44 Magnum and a 6" EAA Witness Hunter 10mm. I shoot them both equally well. I slightly prefer semiautos. I have done a bunch of milk jug testing, and no hollowpoint from either gun has gone further than the 5th jug. 10mm rounds advertised as jacketed soft points acted more like hollowpoints and only went into the 3rd jug. 44 magnum jacketed soft points did not expand and of course went through all 8 jugs that I had lined-up.

I think having an exit wound and a blood trail would be best, so I am convinced that hardcast is the way to go in my case. The wider the flat meplat the better, I would think. I have always been under the impression that handgun bullets just poke holes, there is no hydrostatic shock, so I figured velocity does not matter as much with hardcast in handguns. But lately I am finding that some folks say it works better at velocities 1300 fps and up. Is there any truth to that? I know its a complex topic and it is hard to predict exactly how a deer will react to being shot.

But, if you had to choose, which of the following options do you think would be the best for large deer? A 10mm 200 gr hardcast WFN with a 0.32 meplat, going 1300 fps? A 44 special/magnum 240-260 gr hardcast WFN with a 0.35 meplat , going 975-1000 fps? Anything much hotter makes me "flinchy" with this light weight revolver. Or, I always liked 1911s, why not shoot Montana Bullet Works's 45acp 230 gr hardcast LFN with a 0.335 meplat, loaded to 925 fps? It seems like a lot of 44 special hunters say to aim for 900-1100 fps, so this would be on the lower end but might still work.

So which route should I go? I'm guessing you guys will say to go with whatever I am most accurate with. I am probably overthinking it, but if a 250 pound buck walks in front of me, I don't want him to suffer any more than he has to, I want a blood trail, and I would rather not have him run onto my grumpy neighbor's property.

Thanks for any advice!

[huntinlever]

Great thread. Watching with interest.

[versa-06]

Hello Danyo & welcome aboard!! I really don't think that you will get as much meplat out of an auto. So I always prefer 50/50 ( Wheel Weight/ Pure Lead)+ tin for fill out, 220-265 grain bullets depending on caliber, & as large of a meplat as you have up to around 80-85% of the bullet caliber. But then again your 10mm pistol may cycle wide mouthed bullets. Good Luck with this adventure!!

[Wheelguns 1961]

Any of those setups should do fine. The main thing is to put the bullet in the right place. With hunting anything is possible. You won’t always get the perfect shot. You won’t always have a blood trail, even with an exit hole. My choice would be the 44 magnum because I shoot revolvers best. Check your state laws. While my state allows handgun hunting, there are rules on which handguns are legal.

[GregLaROCHE]

I say use the gun you are most comfortable with. Are you planning to put a scope on it? Welcome to the forum.

[stubshaft]

I've used my 44 Special with an LBT WFN for hogs and goats. Using Skeeters load (7.5 grs. Unique) just motoring along at around 1K fps. Being a traditional bowhunter myself, most of my shots are under 50 yards and to date I have NEVER been able to recover a bullet. They go coast to coast on all of the animals shot.

[Danyo]

Thanks guys! I have not run any wide mouthed hardcast through the 10mm yet, so yeah I would have to make sure it will feed. Shoulda done that before I posted. I ordered some from DoubleTap Ammo last week, though. So we will see! And no, I did not plan on putting a scope on these guns.

[reloader28]

Another fan of 50/50 alloy for hunting. Seems to me if your shooting that close of range and get into the fifth jug with a hollow point, thats what I would use. The rib cage of a big deer is no thicker than 3 jugs wide and it will make a bigger hole than a solid boolit

[sixshot]

Welcome to the world of hand gun hunting, you're going to feel a new excitement you haven't felt in a long time. Cast bullets will work great for you, I've been using them for over 50 years & taken quite a bit of game with the 3 big "4" calibers, 41, 44 & 45. Probably taken the most with the 41. In your 44 if you want to use HP's just take out both lungs, or a solid will do the same thing, I've taken many & they don't go very far. If you have to anchor them where they stand then break both shoulders with a high shoulder shot. It might not kill them instantly but they go down on the spot. I usually use 10 grs of Unique with the Keith bullet, probably recovered 6-7 bullets in the last 50 years on something like 100 deer, never kept track.
My heavier load has always been 21.0 grs of 2400 & the Keith bullet if I'm really mad, use the same load on elk & bears. A 250 gr bullet in a 41 or a 45 is going to give you the same results. Just took Kudu, Nyla & Gemsbok in Africa with those 2 calibers with the high shoulder shot, bullets are probably still going. Got one exit on my Cape Buffalo with the 45.
In your 10mm & that 200 gr bullet, if you are running 1100-1150 fps with a WFN you will be just fine, take the high shoulder shot or center punch the lungs depending on angle. I always try to cast my bullets as soft as I can and still maintain accuracy, why would you cast them any harder if accuracy is there? Not telling anyone else what to do, just saying that's how I've always done it. Deer aren't hard to kill, but sometimes they are hard to hit. Good luck on your hunt.

Dick

[Rapier]

The 44 Mag is notorious for no expansion and going through a deer like a freight train. I would use the 240gr SWC similar to the Lyman 240. With practice you can keep it in a 2" group at 50. I would prefer a 6" or 7 1/2" barrel, but the 4" will do the trick. I used a 7 to 7.5 gr Unique load in a 44 Blackhawk OM to shoot hogs with, killed 4 in one day, not one stopped the 240 grain. Welcome and good luck.

[1Papalote]

44. Practice out to 50 yards until you are proficient
I've taken 2 deer, 44m and 45C, 40&50 yards respectively. Rugers, SBH scoped And Bisley with factory sights.

[Harter66]

I've killed hogs at 5-47 yd with a 454424 and the NOE version at a paltry 1050 fps MV . 20-36" of penetration every time the measurements are so varied because the bullets ran out of hog .
They did this often breaking at least 1 but as many as 5 ribs .

I don't know why a 429421 wouldn't do the same .

[BLAHUT]

The biggest, softest, heaviest you can shoot accurately...

[megasupermagnum]

I really wouldn't worry about it. I understand grumpy neighbors are the worst, but Minnesota allows unarmed retrieval of game on other property, the way it should be. Everything you listed is perfectly suitable, and I've taken deer with both 10mm auto and 44 magnum, and I'd have nothing against 45 acp either.

You are way too worried about penetration with what you have. My only experience with 10mm auto was with 180gr XTP bullets at around 1300 fps, and they expand really well. Both deer shot with that round exited the far side, one was a pretty extreme angle too. Very effective round, nothing explosive, but it works good. I would definitely look into using a hollow point in 10mm auto if getting the deer down as fast as possible is the goal.

I've never used such a weak 44 magnum round. I've seen the results of a 240gr soft point, but those were blazing fast from a 10 5/8" barrel, probably over 1500 fps. It's effective for sure. It probably expanded, and yes it exited. I've seen a 41 magnum used with Federals cast core hardcast bullets which might be more comparable, but still I'm guessing they were much faster than you are planning. They zipped right on through leaving a bullet size hole. Nothing impressive, but it for sure killed the deer fine. At only 1000 fps, I think a solid non-expanding cast bullet is a good choice. I would still cast them very soft like 30:1 alloy though and hope the nose rivets at least a little.

I've never shot anything big with 45 acp, and I've not seen anyone do it yet. I've heard of people using hollow points on deer, and while they definately are lethal, I'm thinking this might be a case where you might not get an exit. For better or worse, nearly all hollow point bullets either jacketed or cast are designed for maximum expansion. They often expand to or over 3/4". That combined with the low velocity, I think you are definitely in the territory a solid cast bullet makes the best sense. They will definitely exit, and you should be able to feed bullets with a bigger flat nose than a 10mm. I'm surprised your 10mm will cycle with a .32" nose, many wont. That's pretty big for 10mm, and it's not small for 45 either. If you cast your own, I think the Accurate 45-210L will be a phenomenal hunting bullet for 45 acp, and it's one I will possibly use this fall.

Hydrostatic shock is mostly nonsense anyway, it may exist, but what most people perceive it to be is usually just misinterpretation anyway. Nothing magic happens at 1300 fps. Even the often touted 2000 fps for hydrostatic shock is nothing magic either. The main thing more velocity gets you in handguns is much more effective hollow point bullets. Below that and you run a really tight balance between bullets that don't expand at all, and those that expand way to much, such as most 45 acp's. Once you get up to that 1200-1300 fps range you can use bullet designs that are much more forgiving, and you can count on them to both expand, and penetrate all the way through.

One last thing, I've hunted deer in central and western MN since I was a little kid. I've shot 3 deer with a puny little 327 federal handgun, and all three exited. One was a coup-de-grace, one was a one and done shot with a hollow point, and one was two shots with a solid that did expand based on the massive hole it left. The second shot was not needed, but I will always send a second shot if given the chance. Neither deer made it 40 yards. If a 140 grain expanding bullet at 1250 fps exits full size MN deer, I'm quite confident anything you have listed will also exit. Don't worry so much about the water jugs, that 10mm auto and hollow points will also pass through. 5 milk jugs is pretty dang good. There's plenty of popular rifle rounds that won't do better than that. That's on par with what many people use with 308 and 30-06 for example.

[quilbilly]

The biggest, softest, heaviest you can shoot accurately...

Yes. Welcome to our group!!!

[Teddy (punchie)]

Hit the animal where the shoulder blade and the spine neck meet. Just at base of inside the ribs. Area where if animal is dressed out the throat, windpipe, veins and artery, pass and close to the spine. If you hit this area the animal will fall right there. The damage to spine alone will stop the animal. 2nd place I aim for.

Double shoulder shot should do a good job. Stopping the animal in its tracks. Lots of meat damage. I almost never aim for this spot.

Heart shot about animal may go 50 yards max. Hard for me to shoot the there, just not the spot for me.

Lungs ribs area behind shoulder animal may go 50 yds. to 150 yds. This is where I hit them only loose a few pounds of meat.

I would also say I shoot at running deer....moving deer. Have had to pass on a few where not able to pull the trigger, for lack of bullet placement and safety. Only ever lost one deer I hit, and that a long story. Missed a few easy shots that are also long stories darn trees. Most of my hunting is with a 150 grs. pill move at 3100 fps. or faster. Which is completely different then the pass through of a all lead bullet. I would have to only take the shot if everything was correct because of the past through; because aiming time and other reasons

Helped meat cutters and butchers cut deer (there is a difference). I would say some 2000 animals over the years. So all this said safety and bullet placement.

[Digital Dan]

Get the "hardcast" out of your thinking, it is unnecessary and counter-productive. I used 300 gr pure lead with a paper patch in the .44 Mag, not one critter took a second step after being shot.

[35 Rem]

I always read about how the large bore handguns will easily over penetrate a deer. Now I know that most are talking about higher velocity than the load I typically carry in my 45 Colt when deer hunting but I only carry it to finish off deer shot with a rifle. Never used it but one time over the years. The time I did use it, I had shot a doe at about 100 yards with my 35 Remington and hit high for a spine shot. The deer was unable to move but definitely not dead so I got right up to it and shot it in the side of the head right below and a bit behind the eye. Of course it expired immediately but I was shocked when I rolled it over and saw that the bullet didn't exit the head. The load was mild using the Lee 255-RFN bullet at 775 ft/sec verified with chronograph. That's definitely not a heavy load by any stretch of the definition but I would have bet it would exit. Alloy was air cooled WWs.

[versa-06]

35 Rem; That would have surprised me too, & would be glad I didn't have a bet riding on it.

[mnewcomb59]

With a 45 Colt and a light load, you probably lost 200 fps when pointing straight down at the deer's head. It might be 775 fps with a level barrel, but I bet it maybe breaks 600 when pointed down. This is a problem when shooting deer directly below your tree stand in large cases and light loads, or for coup de grace shots.