Hornady Pro-Jector upgrade to LNL subplate

[Moleman-]

So 20 or so years ago when version #1 of the LNL came out I called Hornady and asked if the (ram head) "subplate" could be changed on the projector and the priming system changed to the newer style. They of course said that it wouldn't fit and couldn't be made to fit. I've wondered since then if they were just trying to sell more new presses or if the parts really couldn't be made to work. I saw a couple mentions online that the conversion was possible but there were never any pictures showing a converted Pro-7 or Pro-Jector presses. After getting the latest style LNL and comparing both presses schematics I was convinced enough it was possible to buy the EZ-Ject conversion kit that updates older LNL presses with the wire ejector to the newest style. Measuring the parts the hub area of the LNL subplate that gets pressed into the ram was the same dia and depth as the one on my pro-jector. There are two differences though. The through hole on the Pro-jector subplate is 1/2" where the LNL is 1", and the LNL subplate is secured with bevel headed allen screws where the pro-jector subplate is retained by two roll pins. The diameter issue can be corrected by a simple bushing or by converting over to the LNL drive hub which I'll try. The pins v/s screw retainers can be handled by either drilling the ram and LNL subplate for the pins 90 degrees to the original location or countersinking the roll pin holes in the ram for the machine screws. I first tried using the original drive rod and made a LNL drive hub shaped bushing that was a light press fit to the LNL subplate. I has a 1/2" through hole and it looks like the a standard flanged bushing. It's important that the bushing doesn't stick up higher than the subplate, so the flange on this one keeps the bushing surface .005" lower than the subplate face. I will also try the drive hub set up.

So why fix a worn out press which had exceeded the wear adjustment limits of the design? Believe it or not it's still tighter than the LNL. The LNL uses sloppier tolerances but since the priming system is attached to the subplate a little slop doesn't effect anything. The projector press must be tight and timed better so the priming system on the frame matches up with the hole in the subplate. Taking apart the Pro-Jector I found the source of the timing issues the press was having. I had thought it was a worn index wheel or work pawls, but what was worn was the $2 bronze thrust washer under the index wheel which allowed the index wheel to be pulled further away from the index pawls by the shellplate nut until the indexing was effected and couldn't be compensated for by using the adjustments. The LNL drive hub puts less stress on that bronze washer as the drive rod is no longer used to retain the shellplate. On the LNL the drive rod is just a piece of 1/2" shaft with two pin holes in it and a e-clip and spring washer to keep the drive rod from falling down against the feed pawls. Easy enough to copy. Pics are of the bushing style mod where you keep the Projector drive rod and nut shellplate retainer.

[Moleman-]

I lost some of these pics when a computer crashed, but the initial takedown is easy.

To take your Pro_jector appart: (1) first remove the shellplate and drive out the 1/8" locator roll pin. (2) Then drive out the 1/2" pin at the bottom of the ram and pull out the drive rod and index wheel assembly and re install the 1/2" pin. The index pawls might want to fall out, so it's a good idea to not fully remove the pin and insert a 1/2" pin on the unsupported side to keep them in place. At the very least, mark the pawls so you know what side of the press they belong on. (3) Next drive the two 1/4" roll pins on the top of the ram into the drive rods bore until you can push them down inside of the ram. If they don't fall out of the bottom of the ram, remove them before putting the press back together. (4) remove the brass primber tube that is pressed into the subplate. It's a good idea to watch a youtube on how to install the LNL upgrade kit as it will show how to remove the brass tube witout damaging it and wiggle off the subplate in the next step. (5) Use a block of wood wedged under the subplate to wiggle off the subplate by raising up the handle alternating sides until the subplate pops off.

The subplate coil spring pin holes in the ram on the Pro-Jector press were beveled using a piloted bevel bit. The holes were beveled until the screw heads would clear the rams bore and was able to screw on the LNL-AP subplate. The piloted bevel bit is in front of the ram in the first pic. If you don't want to bevel the ram, you could just relocate the pin holes 90 degrees. The LNL uses 1/4-28 bevel headed screws so you can't just redrill the LNL subplate as there will be a gap from the bevel. Using a 1" to 1/2" subplate bushing and the original drive rod the press is working. With the primer break away arm mounted the old girl is back in business. There is basically two index settings, so if the press is way out of time the index wheel needs indexed half a turn on the drive shaft or drift the index nub so it is coming out the other side.

[Moleman-]

To use the LNL type drive hub setup you need to get a drive hub, the screw and washer along with making the new drive rod. I used 1/2" shaft which has a smooth ground finish. The shaft needs to be about 8.-7/16"long with a 1/8"pin hole 5/16" from the bottom, and another 1/8 pin hole 5/16" from the top that is in line with the other pin hole. You also need a collar and a stiff spring with ground ends. I used a 1-1/4" x 1/2"ish (.510") x .061" wire. A little heavier wire or a longer spring is fine as long as it will securely hold the shaft up. A couple thrust washers on either end of the spring wouldn't hurt either. The collar and spring keep tension on the drive rod to keep the drive rod in postion and hold everthing together. I made my "LNL" type drive rod with a keyway on top, but my LNL-AP press uses a pin. You'll have to play around with your spring/collar setup to get the right length/compression so that it keeps the index wheel retainer pin pulled up into the index wheel, and also the index wheel pulled up tight against the ram. For example the bottom of the collar on this shaft is 2-3/8" from the bottom. There are still only two basic index settings, so if the press is way out of time the index wheel needs indexed half a turn on the drive shaft. You should just be able to push the drive hub down by using a long bolt and a piece of wood to apply pressure with the handle and spin the index wheel or shaft 180 dgrees.

[Moleman-]

I had most of the shellplates for the Pro-Jector press, but they won't work as is on the LNL-AP or on the Pro-Jector with the LNL-AP subplate on them so they'll need to be modified. Got a 44mag and 45acp (different from 308 and old 45/308/3006 plate) shellplates with the ammo plant, but was going to send in the projector plates to hornady to be modified to the new style. Got to looking and it's basically a 1/4"ish wide slot .050" deep and just misses the ball bearing detents. Not too hard or worth sending in to have them do it. Modified a couple in the lathe, but it's quicker and throws less chips everywhere on the mill with a dividing head or rotary table. Modifed most of them on the mill, but I've since found a couple that were hiding. Top left, factory LNLAP shellplate. Top right Pro-Jector shellplate. Bottom modified Pro-jector to LNLAP shellplate. The groove is for a much improved case ejector system that is basically a nub on the turret head. The Projector uses a crappy sheetmetal contraption that isn't ridged enough for some cases like oddly enough 9mm .

[Moleman-]

Couple more pics of the modified press set up to size and trim 762x51 brass using RCBS small base die set, lyman trim die with Honey Badger adaptor to variable speed Bosch router with 3/8" endmill. Bag lube the cases with lanolin/alcohol and wait for alcohol to evaporate, then run them through. It cuts the casemouths so cleanly that a trip through the tumbler with SS pins and you usually don't have to use a deburing tool on them. Pretty loud though with a shopvac and router going at the same time so I have this press set up in the barn.

The LNL primer system uses a breakaway cam wire to activate the primer slide. Rather than drill a hole in the press for the lower retainer, I just made a little tab that used the two screw holes used for the original primer base. For the upper retainer for the cam wire I generally copied the location of the retainer screw location and adjusted the wire until the primer slide worked well and tightened down the retainer screw. It has about 20K cycles on it and it hasn't moved even though the frame isn't slotted like on the LNL.

Only modification I've done to both presses is adding a set screw to keep the inner primer tube from lifting up. Likely a spring loaded detent and a shallow groove on the inner primer tube would be better, but this was easy and puts enough tension on the inner tube to keep it from working upward.

I tried out the LNL drive hub setup for a couple years and decided I like the older style Pro-Jector retaining nut andhave changed it back. Over the last 3-4 years I've had a LNL-AP and this Pro-Jector modifed to use the LNL drive hub, both drive hubs have worn to the point of needing shimmed or replaced. Don't know if it's actual wear or the cast drive hub crushing or stretching from loading lots of 308/30-06/8mm/303/243. I may make a hardened 4140 drive hub for my LNL-AP, but the Pro-Jector is using the original drive rod setup with a bushing and the LNL subplate which is the best of both worlds.

[Skyhawk23]

Moleman,

That is a fantastic write up. But still foggy as to what it will take to do the conversion. Can you put a list of parts that is need for the conversion? That would be great. Also, how much mechanical aptitude would a person need to do the job? Can the conversion be done with simple tool? or we need a machine shop in order to do it?

As always thanks for your tip and tricks on the fix

[Moleman-]

Can you put a list of parts that is need for the conversion? That would be great. Also, how much mechanical aptitude would a person need to do the job? Can the conversion be done with simple tool? or we need a machine shop in order to do it?

Thanks for the kind words and questions Skyhawk23. I used these parts for the original drive rod conversion:
(1) the Hornady LNL-AP EZ-Ject upgrade kit for presses #1-6999 which is part #398309

(2) a self made 1.002" OD (so it was a press fit) x 1/2" ID x-- ish long (so it's level with the top surface or a few thousands recessed). You can order a 1"OD x1/2"ID x 1" long oil impregnated (oilite type) bearing #6391K414 $9.37 from McMaster -Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/products/be...ve-bearings-7/ which would work with some type of retainer. The bearing isn't under any thrust load and the iron bushing I made I could almost press in by hand and that was it's only method of retention for a few mounths of testing. Yesterday when I put swapped the press from the drive hub to bushing Pro-Projector rod I went with slightly longer 1/4-28 bevel head ram screws to physically lock the bushing in place. Another option would be in the Hillman type boxes at Ace/Menards/HomeDepot/Lowes ect to get a 1"OD x 3/4" ID x 1" long steel machine bushing/sleeve and a 3/4" OD x 1/2" ID x 1" long oilite/bronze oil impregnated bearing to make your own 1"-1/2" bearing. You should be able to pull them together using a nut/bolt/washer/socket ect setup. If they're not very snug and you don't have a lathe handy you can use a pipe cutter to lightly raise several rings around the OD to increase it's size a few thousands

(3) LNL primer feed cam wire kit 392227 plus the two cap screws that originally held down the old primer base assembly and another to retain the upper wire bracket.

(4) Primer slide small 392219

(5) primer slide large 392218

(6) primer slide spring 392336 The subplate kit I used came with the inner and outer primer tubes and the primer punches but was missing these parts. The Cam wire kit comes with the cup base if you want to drill a hole in the base, but I was concerned I'd get it mis aligned so I made a bracket that looks alot like one of the old ProJector primer arms and mounted it to the two primer base screw holes. The cup end was drilled with a ball end mill for the round end of the wire to set in. I'll add in more details about the cam wire top and bottom retainers when I get a chance.

I used these parts to complete the LNL-AP style drive hub setup: From the parts listed above # 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 which is the basic kit and primer system parts. Also added was:

(7) LNL-AP drive hub #392355

(8) 1/2" x12" shaft with a ground finish. You can likely use 1/2" rod from home depot but it won't be as smooth or last as long before galling. It's available in carbon steel which is what the original shaft is, or SS. I used SS only because I had a piece left over from a quick change gear box rebuild. Mcmaster-carr #1346K17 https://www.mcmaster.com/products/ro...tary-shafts-5/ You can also cut and modify the original drive rod, but I would advise against it. Making this rod is where you might have issues using only a hand drill and vise. The two 1/8" pin holes in it must be on center and aligned exactly for the timing to be correct. Not impossible with a drill press, but much harder with a hand drill. I cheated and set it up in the mill.

(9) 1/2"-1" collar, I made mine out of scrap but they are available at most hardware stores.

(10) spring Must fit over the 1/2" shaft loosely and allow for rotation, so ground ends will be better. I had one in my junk bin. At least .061" wire and 1.25" long. Not a bad idea to add a thrust washer on either side of the spring, but mine seemed to rotate smoothly after a few rotations. Ace and most hardware stores have a selection of springs and since it's not real critical it shouldn't be hard to find one close enough to work.

[Moleman-]

how much mechanical aptitude would a person need to do the job? Can the conversion be done with simple tool? or we need a machine shop in order to do it?

The conversion using the bushing is much easier than trying to use the drive hub and an average guy should be able to pull it off easily. You will need a decent set of punches, the 1/4" piloted 82 degree chamfer bit which makes it easy, set of allen wrenches, a tap to add a setscrew or even a roll pin would work to retain the bushing, degreaser and rags, grease, and a drill of some sort and a stone of some sort to deburr. Drill press is what I used to bevel the ram holes, but if you can keep a hand drill straight and level with light even pressure you should be able to bevel the ram holes with it stopping often to check depth. Thought I'd remembered using the mill to bevel the ram holes, but remembered I'd of had to turn an arbor to hold it since it looked like thebit would of hit the cone live center. So it was beveled on a well worn drill press. You can also just redrill the pin holes 90 degrees to the current location using a clamp or piece of allthread and nuts/washers to hold the subplate in place tightly and the 1/4 allen bolts in to hold it in time even though they'll be stickin out.

Making a new drive rod isn't hard either, but getting the two pin holes dead center and on the same plane is much harder to do with hand tools. It is possible with a drill press but easy with a mill. I think the older Pro-Jector drive rod & nut setup is superior overall as it doesn't loosen up like the LNL-AP drive hub can.

[Skyhawk23]

Moleman,

Thanks for the list and more instructions. It looks like a mess I am not likely going to attempt. It seem to be cheaper to trade in the old press for the new one? LOL

Thanks again.

[Moleman-]

skyhawk23, It's seems like a lot, but isn't bad to do really and gets rid of that poorly designed sheet metal case ejector which is where I've had most of my issues with that press. Wish they'd just come up with a dedicated upgrade kit for the PJ/P7 presses but then they couldn't sell you a new LNL. I don't like the LNL feature on the LNL-AP except on the powder measure. Everywhere else I've been debating just making thin headed threaded bushings to replace the LNL inserts in the press and loctiting them in place.

[deltaenterprizes]

skyhawk23, I don't like the LNL feature on the LNL-AP except on the powder measure. Everywhere else I've been debating just making thin headed threaded bushings to replace the LNL inserts in the press and loctiting them in place.

I made threaded bushings to eliminate the LNL feature for my 2 presses!

[Messy bear]

Interesting write up! Thanks for pix and details on how this works. Having owned all 3 presses, I can appreciate this.
Can you explain what I need to cut the groove in the plates for ejector? I don’t have tooling that hard.
Thanks Jeff

[Moleman-]

Interesting write up! Thanks for pix and details on how this works. Having owned all 3 presses, I can appreciate this.
Can you explain what I need to cut the groove in the plates for ejector? I don’t have tooling that hard.
Thanks Jeff

Those shellplates are hard enough that I use carbide. It's an interupted cut using a lathe and took longer than using a dividing head or rotary table and 1/4" two flute carbide endmill. I have the dividing head set up right now with a 375 barrel thats getting a tapered octagon profile, then one more 357 max barrel getting the same treatment. If I have time I found 1-2 more shellplates I missed that need to slot cut before taking the indexer off of the mill.

Hornady will or at least used to modify the plates (exchange) for I believe it was $10. If you don't have a lathe or mill handy, that's likely cheaper than you could get it done elsewhere.

[deltaenterprizes]

Hornady will or at least used to modify the plates (exchange) for I believe it was $10. If you don't have a lathe or mill handy, that's likely cheaper than you could get it done elsewhere.

They machined the groove in mine, some have the caliber marked and it was still there when I got the plate back!