Shoot wet or dry

[buckeyeken]

Have always wiped between shots one damp then one dry using moose milk. I have also heard of a lot of people only running a damp patch and shoot wet any pros or cons about either.I use DGL lube and I am out here in AZ so yes it is hot and dry.Thanks for any input and it will give me something to think about.PS it is a money bullet design line c sharps 45-90 and a 34" tube

[beltfed]

Dry bore with Paper Patch, (slightly) wet bore for greasers.
If left damp, be sure to wipe the chamber each shot.
beltfed/arnie

[JKR]

What Arnie said.
With PP bullets I push a dry patch through behind my bore pig for every shot.
With grease grooved bullets I use a damp patch after every shot and also wipe my chamber if necessary to make sure it’s dry.
I believe that shooting a GG bullet down a dry bore will leave leading.
JKR

[Gunlaker]

I do the same as those guys. Except if I'm shooting my .40-65's or .45-70's I don't bother drying the chambers with greasers. On .45-90 and longer cases I do dry between shots as I find the brass stretches. I don't have that problem with the shorter 2.1" cases.

With paper patch I make everything as clean and dry as possible between shots.

Chris.

[Sasquatch-1]

In my front stuffers I use an alcohol-soaked patch between shots. I do this only if I plan on another shot. The alcohol will kill any embers and clean out a lot of the fouling. It also dries very quickly in a warm barrel.

[indian joe]

In my front stuffers I use an alcohol-soaked patch between shots. I do this only if I plan on another shot. The alcohol will kill any embers and clean out a lot of the fouling. It also dries very quickly in a warm barrel.

front loaders ---I only shoot on the range with em (competition/games) so this is irrelevant or even counter productive to hunting which is a whole different scenario.
more than one way to skin a cat ! every shooter has their own system of doing stuff - about 50 % of those work fine others not so fine - but nobody is gonna change - some fellers continue to skin the cat cold with a blunt knife - some need to "pee on the fence" - so the purpose of this is ? amusement - and its about ball guns - after seeing the result of two fellers blowing their hand half off with ML slug guns - I am not interested in that game

1) if you shoot a fouling shot - NEVER do it with a blank charge - why not ? - = filling the barrel up with gunk - fouling shots need to be a normal charge (powder + patched ball) so we are normalising the barrel for the following shot.
2) powder down - if your patches are coming out clean there wont be embers down there - if not ? fix it pronto.
3) for simplicity on the range you cannot improve on a damp moosemilk patch - figure this out and you can shoot your frontloader forever without needing to clean between shots

I shoot the full days events without cleaning - gun goes in the rack with a ramrod down bore between events and at the start of each round (if things are serious) I fire that one fouling shot - otherwise just load it and go to work - clean that gun at the end of the day and its (inside) no different 10 shots fired or 50 . That damp patch on the ball clears the crud and each shot is fired from a semi clean bore thats same as the last shot ............................

[Lead pot]

I shot a silhouette match this weekend and my friend I shoot with and he uses one damp patch between shots fired using his .40-65 and he pulled two necks during the match we had to push out with a tight patch. They were in the bore about 3/8".

[indian joe]

I shot a silhouette match this weekend and my friend I shoot with and he uses one damp patch between shots fired using his .40-65 and he pulled two necks during the match we had to push out with a tight patch. They were in the bore about 3/8".

ooooow dont like the thought of that!!!

PP or grease ?

what do ya reckon did this ?
( a damp patch from the chamber end is gonna leave more moisture than we realise from the initial squeeze and its gonna be right at the throat/start of the rifling )

I never had anything like this ................dont want the experience.

[Don McDowell]

FYI running a BACO bore wipe down from the muzzle usually knocks a separated case right out..

[Lead pot]

Grease Joe.
I had this happen once last month's match also.

[Gunlaker]

I'm surprised you guys are having trouble with stretching the 40-65 with damp chambers. I've shot many thousands of rounds out of my two Shiloh's in .40-65 and haven't had the slightest trouble. Same with my 45-70's. With the longer cases I have stretched some though.

Chris.

[Lead pot]

Chris,

I don't have a problem pulling necks, but I have had that happen once with the .44-90BN when reading when the polly wads started to being used and a mix of 10/1 NAPA water soluble cutting oil. I pulled 5 out of 7 necks running one damp patch followed by a dry patch.
I blamed it on the .06" polly wad but I think it was a combination of both. The polly I think was too tight in the neck with the slick chamber from the oiled chamber. This was not a problem with the .45-2.4 or the .45-2.6 but I did have to trim often using the oil with the polly and fiber wads.

[indian joe]

Chris,

I don't have a problem pulling necks, but I have had that happen once with the .44-90BN when reading when the polly wads started to being used and a mix of 10/1 NAPA water soluble cutting oil. I pulled 5 out of 7 necks running one damp patch followed by a dry patch.
I blamed it on the .06" polly wad but I think it was a combination of both. The polly I think was too tight in the neck with the slick chamber from the oiled chamber. This was not a problem with the .45-2.4 or the .45-2.6 but I did have to trim often using the oil with the polly and fiber wads.

Thanks for the feedback
I have not shot anywhere near the number of rounds you fellers have done - might be 7 or 800 from my 45/75 and maybe 1200 from the sharps (45/70)
Am shooting a tight 45thou polywad in both guns (HDPE poly ----- cant find the LDPE locally) - cases are spotless clean inside and unsized until they wont chamber and then only a touch of a body die till they will go. I dont necksize so boolits are pretty much a slipfit (or very close to it) with a light crimp - running .460 in both guns
The 45/75 is very neat fit in the chamber (neck) being formed from 348 brass and proly shoulda been neck turned but not going there - its inclined to develop a little bump where the old shoulder was and /or the slightest imperfection in the crimp means a no go - I made an outside swage die that i use on the loaded rounds to finish them (most dont need it but some do) .

Am I right in thinking that the most likely cause of problems is a film of moisture in the front end of the chamber that stops the neck from expanding enough to release ?
Those case necks in the picture dont look overlong ? The wad needs to be firm in the parallel of the neck - a too long boolit or seated too deep so it drives the wad into the taper at all is gonna be a problem even if it all looks hunky dory from the case mouth.
Maybe case neck tension plays into this too? I am surprised how many blokes are full length sizing and even then the die is often used full depth

Am happy to pontificate from the sidelines here, those torn necks would make me nervous - what if one of them went far enough in to allow a next round to chamber? I am inclined to utilise the magazine and lever action with the 45/75 and dont always catch the emptys ---------------------------

[Lead pot]

Joe,

The necks on my .45-90 BN are .575" long and I seldom use a wad stack more than a .026" wad cut from a OJ or milk carton and a .043" wad cut from a ice cream bucket or just a single .06" fiber wad. If the wad is a proper fit in a fired case you don't meed more to seal the gas behind the bullet. And I don't seat the bullet deeper than .125" and I don't use a crimp and if I do need to use a crimp for a large chamber neck it will be a taper crimp.
Most of my rifles have a chamber cut with a reamer I had made for using the paper patch bullets. The fired cases will not except a greaser.
The pulled cases in the photo where shot in the Shiloh with their chamber and it is a snug neck.
Moisture in the chamber might do what you said but it will also make it slick and even in a clean case neck the friction of the bullet will be tight and if there is any meaning on the case mouth this also will increase the release pressure and have an effect pulling the neck.
A case cut right at chamber length where the case mouth is right at the 45º transition into the throat it will lull the case over the 45º and tighten the neck tension if there is any sort of head space.
Consistent bullet release from the case mouth is very important for holding accuracy.

[indian joe]

Joe,

The necks on my .45-90 BN are .575" long and I seldom use a wad stack more than a .026" wad cut from a OJ or milk carton and a .043" wad cut from a ice cream bucket or just a single .06" fiber wad. If the wad is a proper fit in a fired case you don't meed more to seal the gas behind the bullet. And I don't seat the bullet deeper than .125" and I don't use a crimp and if I do need to use a crimp for a large chamber neck it will be a taper crimp.
Most of my rifles have a chamber cut with a reamer I had made for using the paper patch bullets. The fired cases will not except a greaser.
The pulled cases in the photo where shot in the Shiloh with their chamber and it is a snug neck.
Moisture in the chamber might do what you said but it will also make it slick and even in a clean case neck the friction of the bullet will be tight and if there is any meaning on the case mouth this also will increase the release pressure and have an effect pulling the neck.
A case cut right at chamber length where the case mouth is right at the 45º transition into the throat it will lull the case over the 45º and tighten the neck tension if there is any sort of head space.
Consistent bullet release from the case mouth is very important for holding accuracy.

again thanks.
My sharps is an early italian (IAB) --using the CBE 535 grain boolit (mold they recommend for Pedersolis) -needs seated almost full depth - crimp is just under the front driving band - wad is the .045 HDPE + one newsprint - I clean the boolit bases with WD40 before loading - got a wad of flanellette tacked to the bench with a wet half and dry half - its quick and easy - wipe on - wipe off
My 1876 is where most of my energy has gone the last couple years - made some single load rounds for it using a shortened version of the boolit above (minus one driving band and lube groove) its 465 grain - Winchester back in the day actually marketed a 450 grain PP x 90 grain charge for single loading in the '76
This one seats .300 deep with one lube groove out of the case - same wads as the sharps .
Seated .125 is pretty shallow - you would think that boolit would be out of the neck before it had a chance to grab at all eh!

on another tack - been considering getting a 40 cal barrel for the sharps - a project for later - we can still get a spare rifled barrel through the mail without any hassles (within the country) but dont see that working for much longer - a 40/65 blank sitting under the bench might be good insurance - I hear there are numerous different chamberings - what would you recommend - ? cases formed from stock 45/70 ? - maximum range is gonna be 600yards - I like simple stuff that works. (this might never happen either)

[Lead pot]

again thanks.
My sharps is an early italian (IAB) --using the CBE 535 grain boolit (mold they recommend for Pedersolis) -needs seated almost full depth - crimp is just under the front driving band - wad is the .045 HDPE + one newsprint - I clean the boolit bases with WD40 before loading - got a wad of flanellette tacked to the bench with a wet half and dry half - its quick and easy - wipe on - wipe off
My 1876 is where most of my energy has gone the last couple years - made some single load rounds for it using a shortened version of the boolit above (minus one driving band and lube groove) its 465 grain - Winchester back in the day actually marketed a 450 grain PP x 90 grain charge for single loading in the '76
This one seats .300 deep with one lube groove out of the case - same wads as the sharps .
Seated .125 is pretty shallow - you would think that boolit would be out of the neck before it had a chance to grab at all eh!

on another tack - been considering getting a 40 cal barrel for the sharps - a project for later - we can still get a spare rifled barrel through the mail without any hassles (within the country) but dont see that working for much longer - a 40/65 blank sitting under the bench might be good insurance - I hear there are numerous different chamberings - what would you recommend - ? cases formed from stock 45/70 ? - maximum range is gonna be 600yards - I like simple stuff that works. (this might never happen either)

Joe,

I have .40-65 brass made from Remington .45-70 and .45-70 Winchester and when Starline started I stocked up with it. All works just fine.
I have two .40-65's and the last one I designed a reamer for PP only. It has a tight neck with the outside dimensions at .425" and a 5º transition into a 2.5º throat. It's a PP only chamber designed close to the early chambers used. Most of my rifles have this shallow transition from 3.5º to 7º but most are 5º funnel from the chamber neck. I have several chamber casts from original rifles and they all have a shallow funnel transition.
I don't like the 45º now used and all my shallow transitions shoot very good.
My .40-70 Shiloh has a 5º also. and it holds very well out to the 1000 yard line. But the .40-65 out performs the .40-70 but not by much.
I cant recommend any chamber design for you. I just use these and they work well for me.