A good waterfowl gun?

[Keyman]

I bought a Stevens Model 511 Series A double barrel 12 gauge 3 inch chamber. Since lead for waterfowl is a no no, can I safely shoot steel shot in this gun? If not, would bismuth be safe? Thanks for the help. Keyman

[Teddy (punchie)]

boy o boy rough topic

shot size matters

speed maters

last is the chokes

these all work towards the stress on the barrel and choke.

Using a too tight of choke too large of shot (2's or larger) and faster then say 1450 fps. places a recipe for gun damage.

[Thundarstick]

Bismuth is safe in all shotguns, through all chokes. I wouldn't risk steel through it, especially if it's choked full.

[Keyman]

???

[stubshaft]

I would shoot only bismuth out of it. You did not mention what the barrels were choked and steel has a propensity of opening up and damaging a full choked gun. A couple of rounds should do no harm but why risk it?

[BLAHUT]

If it has screw in chokes? you can shoot steel, stay with open chokes, no tighter than modified, bismuth acts just like lead, same chokes as for lead. Bismuth can be shot in all shotguns without worry. If you have the steel in the barrels you could have screw in chokes installed, then you could shoot steel through it...

[Keyman]

This shot gun has no screw in chokes. Looking up this model it was made in 1979. One barrel is .710 and the other is .695 After looking up the cost of bismuth shells, is there any other type of shell that could work? I might have to start loading my own shells.

[Texas by God]

I have an old NR Davis & Sons 12 gauge double with 32” barrels choked IC and full as near as I can figure. Other than the carry weight, it is ideal for pheasants but due to the law I can’t use it on waterfowl. A box of Bismuth shells was $70/25 last I looked. So no thanks.
So- my Remington 870 Express is my duck gun(with steel), although I’ve used my Yildiz 20 gauge with 3” steel and open choke tubes(after all, it has ducks engraved on the frame).
You might check into a Maverick 12 gauge pump for a designated duck gun. Not much over $200 and happy to get wet and muddy.
I fondly remember the pre- lead shot ban days when we could jump shoot ducks from the pond with a .410( and it worked).


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[Keyman]

The reason for this gun choice is the stock drops more than an 870, or a new Mossberg I bought a few years ago. When I put the Stevens to my shoulder, I am looking down the barrel dead on with target. An 870 and Mossberg is a different story, way high on the barrel, and a duck miss. More spacer blocks on stock do not solve this problem. Any one make a 870 stock that could solve this problem?
Keyman

[HWooldridge]

The reason for this gun choice is the stock drops more than an 870, or a new Mossberg I bought a few years ago. When I put the Stevens to my shoulder, I am looking down the barrel dead on with target. An 870 and Mossberg is a different story, way high on the barrel, and a duck miss. More spacer blocks on stock do not solve this problem. Any one make a 870 stock that could solve this problem?
Keyman

I used to own a Stevens 311 in 12 gauge - and probably bought it new in 1979. It was choked M&F and a lot of ducks fell in front of those two barrels...

I sold it to a friend before lead was outlawed for waterfowl - but from what I recall, the barrels are fairly thick at the ends. I would not hesitate to use steel shot but YMMV.

Have you contacted Savage - I seem to recall they bought the Stevens line of shotguns and they might be able to tell you the straight skinny.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Boss Bismuth, sells online for $35 box/20, 12ga #5, also have 16 gauge and .410. My buying experience was very good, shells shipped promptly, 16ga 1 oz #5 ordered for pheasant on nearby Federal reserve. I like bismuth for killing critters that my dog might eat, mostly bunnies in the garden with the .410.

[Keyman]

I just read up on the Boss Shells, and they look great. Only problem is buying them. They do not ship to Alaska. I might have to send to my Arizona brother, go visit, and bring back as airline baggage. I was hopping to get something for the spring waterfowl hunt. The price paid for living in the wilderness.
Keyman

[megasupermagnum]

I just read up on the Boss Shells, and they look great. Only problem is buying them. They do not ship to Alaska. I might have to send to my Arizona brother, go visit, and bring back as airline baggage. I was hopping to get something for the spring waterfowl hunt. The price paid for living in the wilderness.
Keyman

You have to be selective on what you buy. There are a lot of piss poor bismuth shotshells out there, and plenty come from Boss. Bismuth shot is best described as very poor quality lead shot. Even the "super round" and plated shot of Boss is still not very round, and the plating does nothing at all except look pretty. As such, the things that make lead pattern good, also make bismuth pattern good. Those are shot hardness (can't do anything about it, since Rotometals is about the only name in the game large scale right now), as well as low or moderate velocity, and tight chokes. Buffer helps maintain shot roundness, and helps increase patterns. Most manufacturers load to high velocity, and don't use buffer. That combined with the already less than ideal shot does not make great ammo.

Boss only loads non-buffered loads, and many of them are loaded pretty fast. I've tried the 2 3/4" 1 1/4 oz 12ga load and found it was only like a 65% pattern at 40 yards in a full choke. All of Boss's 12 gauge loads are loaded to 1350 fps+, which just isn't acceptable for a non-buffered load, not even with premium lead shot. If I were you, I would try the 3" 1 5/8oz load and see how that one patterns.

Kent ammo is even worse. The only thing you read about online is how bad they are. I would not waste money trying any Kent bismuth.

One to look for that just came out is Federal Hevibismuth. It is kind of buffered (you would understand if you saw a picture), the velocities are quite high, but with buffer and the flitecontrol wad it may prove to be a good option.

Winchester has true buffered bismuth loads, however, the morons load the 3" 12 gauge to 1450 fps. The 20 gauge load is a different story. I bet that Winchester 20 gauge load is a stone cold killer, probably MORE effective than the 12 gauge version.

As far as I'm concerned every manufacturer had their sales department slap bismuth in a shell and put big numbers and pictures on it to sell. As a consequence very few perform worth anything. I'm sure there are some that are good, but you would have to really try hard to find it. If buying ammo is your only option, I would try that Boss 3" 1 5/8 oz #4 load, the Federal bismuth, and maybe the Winchester bismuth. Forget Kent. I wouldn't get your hopes up too high. If you see 70% patterns, you are doing really well in my opinion. If you get that with the 1 5/8 oz #4 load, that should get you effectively to 50 yards maximum range. I've tried #5, but I found less than ideal penetration at even 50 yards, more like 40 yards tops on ducks. #4 gets you to at least 55 yards on ducks. I wouldn't bother trying #3, you aren't likely to see patterns tight enough to take advantage of it, and it's not effective on Canadian geese at all.

Loading your own bismuth shells is a far better option. Patterns of 85%+ are what I expect from my best loads. Unfortunately due to the less than ideal shot quality, they do not maintain the same patterns at longer ranges as good hard lead does, but it's still way better than anything you can get from steel shot.

[Edward]

Wonder if it's practical in muzzle loaders ?

[megasupermagnum]

Wonder if it's practical in muzzle loaders ?

Of course, why wouldn't it be?

[Edward]

Of course, why wouldn't it be?

Compatibility with lead subs and barrel damage ,that's why/Ed

[megasupermagnum]

Compatibility with lead subs and barrel damage ,that's why/Ed

I don't know what a lead sub is, but bismuth can't damage a barrel.