point blank grizz loads 50-100, experience wanted

[freakonaleash]

I'm going to continue to hunt and fish in Iowa and not worry about grizz.

[hard88cast]

36g, I live in Bozeman, and I have noticed those same loads on the shelf. I personally believe that these MBW 530/450 gr bullets that expand to a solid 1.ooo" of semi hard cast are the way to go. But with no experience actually shooting a charging bear, thats why I posted this blog.
My main reason for this post was how important is the velocity of these big slugs, 1600 with a 450 gr or 1500 with a 530 gr. OR,,, is 1200fps with either of these loads good enough?

[hard88cast]

Blahut
I agree with your post on black bears vs grizz. Most grizz are friendly, or at least non nonchalant, its the sudden interaction at close range that causes problems. Now with black bears if they pay "any" attention to you they plan on eating you no two ways about it. Luckily up here the black bears are scared of there own shadows for the most part.
And your right again, if the grizz decides your in his territory and he has made a decision for full frontal attack you might as well throw your bear spray away because it will do NOTHING but blind the sprayer. You either whack him or go full fetal and let him chew for a bit.
For all you out there I dont mean to degrade all your bear spray thoughts, carry it because 90% of grizz charges will end 10-30ft and you can practice spraying on those bears which may help the next person with that same bear. Ive had many times I could have shot grizz at 30 ft, but rarely is there a reason to, they are actually for the most part very docile., other then the odd one. And thats the one you need to know how to read, and its quite easy to read them, and usually you can read them. Thats exactly why the feds require powder burns in there mouth if you kill one. Point Blank.....

[Doughty]

hard88cast, I have not shot any grizzlies. I have shot two wounded black bears in the head. One, a good sized male, with a .308 Win, jacketed 150s at about 20 yards. The skull was "mushy" but the bullet did not exit. Two, a small female, with a .45 Colt, air cooled WWs at about 5 yards. The skull was somewhat "mushy" and the bullet did penetrate completely. Not the exact answer to your question, but maybe of some use.

My opinion, you are right on with your choice of weapon. Any of your mentioned loads would be fine. Whichever you can shoot the best. I would not discount the need and ability for quick follow up shot(s).

[hard88cast]

Doughty, Thanks for the info on the b bear skulls. I am practicing my quick follow up shots. John, my gunsmith did a fine job on carving out the innards so this 50-100 cartridge would load correctly. I did have to come up with my own specs for my reloads as the 50-100 was really designed for a round nose bullet, but I have these flat nose MBW bullets and load specs down perfect, this rifle will extract and load the next shell 100% of the time and as fast as I can work the lever as long as I fully lever the action.

[36g]

36g, I live in Bozeman, and I have noticed those same loads on the shelf. I personally believe that these MBW 530/450 gr bullets that expand to a solid 1.ooo" of semi hard cast are the way to go. But with no experience actually shooting a charging bear, thats why I posted this blog.
My main reason for this post was how important is the velocity of these big slugs, 1600 with a 450 gr or 1500 with a 530 gr. OR,,, is 1200fps with either of these loads good enough?

I can only speculate, never having shot a bear. My suspicion is that a 1200 fps loading would allow a quicker follow up shot(s). A suggestion would be to go to a local butcher or slaughterhouse and get some cattle leg or hip bones, set them up at a 30 degree angle to bullet path with a solid anchor at your selected distance, and fire away. Judge the performance and your comfort level with that performance. If so desired, pack any voids with clay.

[BLAHUT]

Not speaking with any authority, but at under 25 yards for purely defense why not a 12 gauge bruiser slug in a dependable pump action?

Most 12 gauge slugs, which is SoftLEAD and runs about 0ne 0nce ( about 437 grs ) a .515 gr bullet out of a 45/70 weights about 77grs. more and the rifle carries 7 vers 5 in the shotgun.

[huntinlever]

Most 12 gauge slugs, which is SoftLEAD and runs about 0ne 0nce ( about 437 grs ) a .515 gr bullet out of a 45/70 weights about 77grs. more and the rifle carries 7 vers 5 in the shotgun.

Sorry, Blahut - so which would you be suggesting - the 45-70?

[JFE]

No experience with bears, but if I was in your position I’d contact Phil Shoemaker. He’s an Alaskan master guide who has many years of experience hunting grizzly bears for a living. He’s also a gun nut and has used a lot of different cartridges on bear. His stopper is a 458 Winchester and it’s been his favourite for many years now. He goes by the handle ‘458Win ’ and frequents the Accurate Reloading and 24HourCampfire forums.

[huntinlever]

Any love for the .454 Casull?

[BLAHUT]

Sorry, Blahut - so which would you be suggesting - the 45-70?

My 45/70, as explained above.

[GONRA]

After reading all this, GONRA believes hard88cast needs a sack of hand grenades! !!

[samari46]

Well you have the 50 caliber part right,except you need a belt fed to top it off. Me, I opt out anything that may try to eat me. Frank

[longbow]

I have not had to shoot at a grizzly or black bear so far so no experience here. I live in bear country and often see large black bears and occasionally grizzlys. As mentioned above, dangerous game cartridges tend to use bullets designed to penetrate, not expand. Everything I have read about dangerous game cartridges and bullets indicates that penetration is what is wanted. I certainly would not use a soft lead bullet!

Maybe read here and note that the bullets recommended for dangerous game are hard cast or solid copper/brass:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=153

Item 8A -- for game where 5 to 6 feet of straight line non-expanded penetration is needed.
Item 8C -- The bullet we utilize in this load is very tough and gives only a small to moderately sized mushroom (about .60 cal) and because of the smallish mushroom, it penetrates very deep -- about 4 feet in muscles and bone and as such is a great bullet for use on dangerous game and on smaller game too as it does expand some. This load is the most versatile of our 45-70 loads.
Item 8D -- This bullet is a solid and won't mushroom and thus will penetrate 5 to 6 feet in muscle and bone.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/about.html

Our 45-70 Hammerhead Ammo has been used to take all the heaviest game in North America and Africa, including the African Big Six. Our 420-grain Hammerhead Ammo and 350-grain SuperJack Ammo provides brutal performance on all thin-skinned game up to about 1200-lbs (350-grain SuperJack) and about 1500 pounds (420-grain Hammerhead), out to about 220-yds. Our 540-gr Hammerhead Ammo is the ultimate heavy bear stopper. It is also very useful in heavy cover, delivering full body-length penetration against heavy game, and allowing bad-angle shots. With its super-blunt frontal flat (meplat) it does tremendous damage and anchors heavy game with dispatch.

A charging grizzly is dangerous game and you will want more than 2' or 3' of penetration! Think of how big a large grizzly is and that you are likely going to be shooting it in the face or neck so the bullet has to travel a ways before it hits vitals unless you manage to penetrate the skull for a brain shot which would be largely luck under the circumstances. You want that bullet to go through everything it can to reach and mangle the vital organs and break bones along the way if it meets any.

Also, heavy bullets tend to penetrate better than lighter bullets at high velocity.

You are using a .50-100 so same logic of a heavy hard bullet would apply in my opinion.

This is my take anyway, YMMV.

Longbow

[hard88cast]

Sounds like Buffalo bore and Garret cartridges did the bear testing for me and my loads are right in there with there loads.
Thanks for the links longbow, good reading. I've been reloading so long I never think to look at manufacturers sites.

[Three44s]

After reading all this, GONRA believes hard88cast needs a sack of hand grenades! !!

I think my vote goes for this!

LOL!

Three44s

[gc45]

My bear gun is a 45/70 Guide gun, 515 grfp, pure lead, 100% energy transfer, 27gr of 5744, Mag primer, about 1200 PS, Guide gun carries 7 rounds, a shotgun carries 5 rounds, hard lead bullets goes straight through, unless you hit bone, pure lead hits like a freight train, stays together and transfers all its energy, very accurate. Carried this when fishing in Alaska.

And a very common sense load, all around.

[braddock]

Returning to the OP I think the bullets etc are fine the best one will be the one you've practiced the most with on moving targets.
The Norwegians have trouble with ice bears killing tourists up in svalbard, Their recommended minimum caliber used to be 308 win with solid shot.
Those bears grow bigger than browns and they actively hunt anything that moves for fodder, including people.
Don't lose sight of the fact that when a bear is running you down, it's head doesn't stay still, moving up and down considerably at a pace commensurate with the gallop.
Frontal shots toward the top of the head will either hit it and stop it or miss the head and go on to penetrate forward of the shoulder, maybe cutting the spine but, if not, will continue on into the body cavity and have the pulmonary mass in front of it, not as quick as the head or spine shot but whilst he does a half flip you can jump out the way and start getting in those shoulder shots to anchor him.
Finally if all this fails draw your bowie knife and very quickly sever your own jugular vein, it'll save you a lot of grief. Talking ice bears here, where you are intended to be a meal.
Going back to my first sentence, to practice get a 50 pound burlap sack and pack it tight with sawdust, seal the open end by sewing up with sail twine. Put this inside of another burlap sack, but the sewn up open end goes to the closed end of the second bag then sew that one up.
Fit a couple of brass eyes to this sewn up end, fit a rope to it and have someone fasten that to the tow hitch of their truck at a suitable distance behind.
Get them to drive past you so the sack is like running you down at whatever speed you like.
Practice until you can hit it every shot. When you got that situation your good to go. Best to start with a 357 mag lever gun which will have similar bullet flight time as your loads then progress to the 1886 when you got the hang of it.
The sack should be a similar size to a bears head vitals, shooting his jaw off will only piss him off and he still got his claws.
Bears ain't that hard to kill see https://www.ammoland.com/2014/11/wha...izzly-in-1953/
Best of luck - it's your life.

[indian joe]

After reading all this, GONRA believes hard88cast needs a sack of hand grenades! !!

dont a hand grenade take 7 seconds from pull pin to kaboom ? ya better throw it while hes still makin up his mind whats for dinner

[36g]

dont a hand grenade take 7 seconds from pull pin to kaboom ? ya better throw it while hes still makin up his mind whats for dinner

I'd suggest an M79 Thumper, but even there you've got a 14-27 meter arming distance...