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Thread: CVA scout 45-70 load

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    CVA scout 45-70 load

    I bought a CVA scout rifle in 45-70 for this years deer hunting in Illinois. I did a little trading and came up with 200rds of brass and some 520 gr "Money" bullets. I don't have any molds for a .459 bullet yet but I'm sure a few will follow. I did purchase some 300 gr. FP coated bullets to try out. I'd like to load some of the 520's just to see how accurate they are but I'm not finding much on load data for them. I've read about the 13grs of Red Dot loads and wondered if that would work. I also don't know which load data would be safe for this particular rifle, be it Trapdoor, lever action, or Ruger #1. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman81056 View Post
    I bought a CVA scout rifle in 45-70 for this years deer hunting in Illinois. I did a little trading and came up with 200rds of brass and some 520 gr "Money" bullets. I don't have any molds for a .459 bullet yet but I'm sure a few will follow. I did purchase some 300 gr. FP coated bullets to try out. I'd like to load some of the 520's just to see how accurate they are but I'm not finding much on load data for them. I've read about the 13grs of Red Dot loads and wondered if that would work. I also don't know which load data would be safe for this particular rifle, be it Trapdoor, lever action, or Ruger #1. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
    The scout will take any loads you can tolerate.. Those are pretty heavy bullets not sure what you're gaining? Shooting T Rex maybe? They may be too long to chamber FYI make a dummy round up before loading up a bunch. Straight wall cartridges are very COAL sensitive. My 405gr cast are in the rifling on my 1885 Winchester falling block..

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriskendziora View Post
    The scout will take any loads you can tolerate.. Those are pretty heavy bullets not sure what you're gaining? Shooting T Rex maybe? They may be too long to chamber FYI make a dummy round up before loading up a bunch. Straight wall cartridges are very COAL sensitive. My 405gr cast are in the rifling on my 1885 Winchester falling block..

    Another thing cast bullets Kill via a flat meplat and tissue disruption they don't expand like jacketed bullets do. Those will just zip right through great for paper punching..

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  4. #4
    Boolit Master Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    Those “Money Bullets” are for Long Range Black Powder rifles @1100-1200 FPS they may fit your gun but will be brutal in such a light rifle.

  5. #5
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    I was thinking the 520grs would just be a target type load (only have 50 pcs), I figured around 300gr would be the hunting load. The 520's do seem to be cast out of a harder alloy, might just end up in the melting pot. This is the first year you can use a rifle in my state and I originally put together a 300BLK on an AR platform, but our dick Governor got his assault weapons ban passed so now you can't be on public property with one. The list for useable cartridges is pretty big and since I had a friend that came into the 45-70 stuff and wasn't needing it, well, it's on the list.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman81056 View Post
    I was thinking the 520grs would just be a target type load (only have 50 pcs), I figured around 300gr would be the hunting load. The 520's do seem to be cast out of a harder alloy, might just end up in the melting pot. This is the first year you can use a rifle in my state and I originally put together a 300BLK on an AR platform, but our dick Governor got his assault weapons ban passed so now you can't be on public property with one. The list for useable cartridges is pretty big and since I had a friend that came into the 45-70 stuff and wasn't needing it, well, it's on the list.
    I have 2 45-70's a 1895GBL and a 1885 falling block. Even my elk loads are at most middle of the lever level. My whitetail loads are top end trapdoor level. 350gr cast or 405gr cast, I use the 300gr Barnes ttsx or 405gr cast for elk..

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  7. #7
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    I loaded up a few of the 520's, 40gr Varget, 2.90 oal. I had a Limbsaver butt pad on my slug gun (Mossberg SS1 12 ga really tamed down the 3" mags) I put this over the factory pad on the Scout. We'll see how that feels.

  8. #8
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    I would start with the trapdoor loads and work up from there. Your shoulder will let you know what level to use.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman81056 View Post
    I loaded up a few of the 520's, 40gr Varget, 2.90 oal. I had a Limbsaver butt pad on my slug gun (Mossberg SS1 12 ga really tamed down the 3" mags) I put this over the factory pad on the Scout. We'll see how that feels.
    What's the weight on the scout there website sucks. My 1895GBL is 7#. I installed a limbsaver pad that helped. If you bought the stainless one it's got a break which would help.. The lords caliber can get spicy in a light rifle.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman81056 View Post
    I bought a CVA scout rifle in 45-70 for this years deer hunting in Illinois. I did a little trading and came up with 200rds of brass and some 520 gr "Money" bullets. I don't have any molds for a .459 bullet yet but I'm sure a few will follow. I did purchase some 300 gr. FP coated bullets to try out. I'd like to load some of the 520's just to see how accurate they are but I'm not finding much on load data for them. I've read about the 13grs of Red Dot loads and wondered if that would work. I also don't know which load data would be safe for this particular rifle, be it Trapdoor, lever action, or Ruger #1. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
    I shoot a 500+ gr bullet in my 45/70s, trapdoor range, 12.5 grs unique, about 1180 FPS, 41 grs of blackhorn209 with a mag primer in my roller, 30 grs of blackhorn209 in my 45/60, 27 grs of 5744 in my Guide gun load for big bears, with a 515 gr bullet, you may find you need to get your bullets up to .561 or so for accuracy ? Start low and work up to find the sweet spot. Find it and they can be very accurate. Your shoulder will tell you, my son can only shoot a couple rounds out of the guide gun before calling it quiets, kicks real bad, I can only shoot about a box before calling it quiets. The 300 gr, bullets is way more than needed for deer. See what the gun likes ?

  11. #11
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    I think he means .460 diameter I hope..?

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  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman81056 View Post
    I bought a CVA scout rifle in 45-70 for this years deer hunting in Illinois. I did a little trading and came up with 200rds of brass and some 520 gr "Money" bullets. I don't have any molds for a .459 bullet yet but I'm sure a few will follow. I did purchase some 300 gr. FP coated bullets to try out. I'd like to load some of the 520's just to see how accurate they are but I'm not finding much on load data for them. I've read about the 13grs of Red Dot loads and wondered if that would work. I also don't know which load data would be safe for this particular rifle, be it Trapdoor, lever action, or Ruger #1. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
    12.8 grains Unique under your 300 grain slugs for the win! My Henry loves 'em.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    i bought those 'PLUNKING BULLETS', ALL READY CAST I THINK FROM Western bullets.. 6 GRS. of unique. Its got a a CRACK but no recoil. NEAT and just guessing, but there is probably not an Illinois deer that can stand that up fairly close. Sticking with my 220 Savages for this year..over 1/2 a case of Remington Aucctips left.

  14. #14
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    For deer I prefer an expanding bullet. For a cast slug I don't think you can better the Lyman/Gould 457122 330 grain HP. It has been doing the job since the late 1800's. No need to push it real fast, it was designed as a BP express boolit and meant for 1400-1550fps velocities. I have taken quite a number of deer over the years with this boolit with excellent results. Needs to be cast fairly soft like 20/1. My most used load with this boolit is 30 grains of AA5744.

  15. #15
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    I got a chance to shoot the 520's over 40gr of Varget. No. Not accurate at all and it felt worse that the single shot 12 with 3" Copper Solids. Thats with the Limbsaver pad on top of the CVA pad. The rest of the 520's will go into the melting pot after I get a mold. The 300 gr cast/coated showed great accuracy with a modest charge of 3031. I just picked up 50 of the Hornady 300gr JHP'S I'm going to try for the same velocity as the cast loads.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriskendziora View Post
    i think he means .460 diameter i hope..?

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    yes

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by catman81056 View Post
    I got a chance to shoot the 520's over 40gr of Varget. No. Not accurate at all and it felt worse that the single shot 12 with 3" Copper Solids. Thats with the Limbsaver pad on top of the CVA pad. The rest of the 520's will go into the melting pot after I get a mold. The 300 gr cast/coated showed great accuracy with a modest charge of 3031. I just picked up 50 of the Hornady 300gr JHP'S I'm going to try for the same velocity as the cast loads.
    No need for that punishment unless you're shooting T Rex. As I age I'm getting recoil averse let the bullets do the work. Whitetail are easy to kill. Elk, moose, bears then I step my 45-70's up. But for plinking and paper nope. Even a 405 at 1200 fps killed Bison so there's that...I don't need new fillings on every shot.

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  18. #18
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    I have been loading 45-70 for over 40 years and IMO 3031, Varget and any other powders in that burning rate are too slow for the 45-70, doubly so with 300 grain boolits. Slowest I would recommend are the 4198's or others similar in burn rate. The single base extruded powders do not burn efficiently until the pressure gets up to 25-28,000psi. With 4198 this translates to a velocity of 1800-2000 fps with a 300 grain bullet. I would also avoid ball powders as they are generally harder to ignite and compound the problem at lower pressures. An inefficient burn translates into extreme spreads in velocity. I have seen ES of 150+fps even with 4198 loading at trapdoor levels. You may get acceptable accuracy at 50-100 yards but at longer range the ES with result in a large vertical dispersion. For 1100-1200fps loads with 300-350 grain boolits Unique is hard to beat. 2400 and 5744 will generate more velocity at safe pressure for hunting loads or heavier boolits for long range. Loads I use with these powders (all double base) produce extreme spreads under 30fps and single digit SD's.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt H View Post
    I have been loading 45-70 for over 40 years and IMO 3031, Varget and any other powders in that burning rate are too slow for the 45-70, doubly so with 300 grain boolits. Slowest I would recommend are the 4198's or others similar in burn rate. The single base extruded powders do not burn efficiently until the pressure gets up to 25-28,000psi. With 4198 this translates to a velocity of 1800-2000 fps with a 300 grain bullet. I would also avoid ball powders as they are generally harder to ignite and compound the problem at lower pressures. An inefficient burn translates into extreme spreads in velocity. I have seen ES of 150+fps even with 4198 loading at trapdoor levels. You may get acceptable accuracy at 50-100 yards but at longer range the ES with result in a large vertical dispersion. For 1100-1200fps loads with 300-350 grain boolits Unique is hard to beat. 2400 and 5744 will generate more velocity at safe pressure for hunting loads or heavier boolits for long range. Loads I use with these powders (all double base) produce extreme spreads under 30fps and single digit SD's.
    Does using a magnum primer help burn?

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  20. #20
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    Magnum primers may help a bit but will not overcome the pressure being too low for efficient burn. With Varget, 4895 or similar 100% load density under even a 400 grain jacketed bullet won't reach 25,000 psi. These powders are just too slow to be efficient in the 45-70. Even powders in the 4198 burning rate don't perform very well at trapdoor levels. If you are only shooting out to 100 yards or so an ES of 100-150 fps will only result in .5-.75" of vertical dispersion, however it may open groups even more due to inconsistent barrel harmonics. However a 100 fps ES at 1200-1350fps velocity levels causes almost 2 feet of vertical dispersion at 400 yards. I go to gong matches a couple of times a month with targets out to 450 yards and 2 feet of vertical would not be acceptable. With the right loads a 45-70 can produce excellent accuracy even at longer ranges. I recently fired a 3.5" group at 300 yards with 27 grains of 5744 under 525 grain Lyman 457125 boolit. Rifle was an 1886 Browning equipped with an MVA Soule tang and globe front sights.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check