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Thread: A caution about Type 99 Arisaka rifles

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Old Norma 7.65 ammo was loaded to 2920 feet per seconds. At the time 1980's they made no difference wether fired in either the 1891 or 1909 mausers. Since then they (Norma) have reduced the loading to more sane levels. About 2450 fps or so. Frank

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    Have done and bought or traded for several modified military rifles when I was in high school in the 60s, was very common in the North East woods to find a military surplus changed to something close, without much regard to the actual bore diameter. What I was told about the practice by Dick Riley of Hooksett, NH was that if they could buy ammo in a local general store cheap, and hit something at 50 yards the trappers were good to go. The tougher the gun the better. Those old $19.95 Jungle carbines were a favorite as were the chrome lined Japanese rifles, they were just tools of the trade, like a pair of snow shoes. Precision, sure, a $10-15 job.

    It was common to come across a trapper or hunter with a rifle slung across his back, out in the woods, on a walk, could see anything, could never tell by the look.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by samari46 View Post
    Old Norma 7.65 ammo was loaded to 2920 feet per seconds. At the time 1980's they made no difference wether fired in either the 1891 or 1909 mausers. Since then they (Norma) have reduced the loading to more sane levels. About 2450 fps or so. Frank
    Yes, that older original 7.65 load was pretty "hot". I chronographed and pressure tested it in my M91 test rifle with a 24" barrel. I quit after 5 shots as the pressure ran 66,900 psi with a 2943 fps velocity. The sky did not fall, the climate did not change, there still is no evidence of "Russian collusion" by Trump and the M91 didn't blow up......
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Yes, that older original 7.65 load was pretty "hot". I chronographed and pressure tested it in my M91 test rifle with a 24" barrel. I quit after 5 shots as the pressure ran 66,900 psi with a 2943 fps velocity. The sky did not fall, the climate did not change, there still is no evidence of "Russian collusion" by Trump and the M91 didn't blow up......
    You're dead on about that ammo being hot!!!!!!!!!!

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Moleman

    Possibly they were based off the actions ability to handle gas escaping. Gas escaping was a major concern back in the early days of high pressure cartridge development. The 7.65 was the first of such cartridges developed for use in Mausers as a propriety cartridge. Cases splitting or otherwise letting go was fairly common back then until they developed the proper brass alloy and learned how to properly form and anneal them. Leakage of gas around the primer pocket was also a problem. However, once the manufacture of proper cases learned the problems went away. Before the problem was alleviated Mauser made several changes resulting in the winged bolt sleeve on M93s.
    .........
    Bought that action as a complete gun with a Fajen stock in 6.5 carcano with a cold blued rethreaded hex stub Brescia Arsenal barrel that was pretty pitted inside and out compared to the excellent condition mauser parts. Don't know what the story on it was other than perhaps they ran out of funds for a good barrel. The gun shop has a policy that you have to shoot the gun 5 times if it's used and agree that it works. Saying that I just wanted it for the action and stock didn't matter to the sales guy. So off to there range we went with 5 Norma cartridges, safety glasses and muffs. Shot one, puff of smoke in face and case broke in two when it hit the ground. Shot two puff of smoke in face and case held (broke it in two with slight thumb pressure). Shot three, puff of smoke in face and back of case broke off during extraction. The front half fell out, but I was able to convince the sales guy at that point that 3/3 case separations is an issue. They weren't going to sell it to me until I spoke to their gunsmith and explained that I would be pulling that barrel and replacing it before it was shot again. I tracked down the winged sleeve as at some point they did start making them for the 1891's and rebarreled it. No issues going forward with that rifle, but I'd be leery shooting one of the older non winged bolt sleeve models without good safety glasses.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check