30-06, IMR 4350, differing MAX/Compressed levels.

[Oleman]

I used to load for my uncle his favorite and most accurate load for Elk Sierra 180 Gr. Gameking! Over 56 Gr of IMR 4350.

[huntinlever]

I used to load for my uncle his favorite and most accurate load for Elk Sierra 180 Gr. Gameking! Over 56 Gr of IMR 4350.

I'm sure that's a great load. From what I can see, 180 56.5 is maxed and compressed, and so 56.0 as an accuracy load fits within my experience too - max or near it. That's probably a bit hot for what I'm comfortable loading for my boy, but if I end up with some 180 GK's worth taking it up for my own purposes. For now the load will have to be built around the Hornady 180 gr Interlock SP's.

[Larry Gibson]

Cool. I am developing 180 Hornady SP's at 95-99% of Max, 51.4-53.9 gr I 4350, estimated 2550 - 2690 fps. Thoughts?

I have not read what rifle make/model you are loading for. A lot of data lists maximum loads in deference to many older bolt, lever and gas guns made for the 30-06. If you are loading the 30-06 cartridge for a modern newer made bolt action [Ruger M77, Savage 110/112, Remington M721/M700, Winchester M70 or a foreign made similar bolt action then, with IMR 4350 under 180 gr bullets you can load to 60 - 62,000 psi w/o any problems. My 30-06 hunting load with the Hornady 180 gr SPBT or SP for use in my Winchester M70 with factory 24" barrel is 56.0 gr. That is in Winchester cases with WLR primers. The velocity runs right at 2757 fps. I have measured the psi at 60,000. That has been my standard 30-06 hunting load in several other 30-06s also for many years.

[huntinlever]

I have not read what rifle make/model you are loading for. A lot of data lists maximum loads in deference to many older bolt, lever and gas guns made for the 30-06. If you are loading the 30-06 cartridge for a modern newer made bolt action [Ruger M77, Savage 110/112, Remington M721/M700, Winchester M70 or a foreign made similar bolt action then, with IMR 4350 under 180 gr bullets you can load to 60 - 62,000 psi w/o any problems. My 30-06 hunting load with the Hornady 180 gr SPBT or SP for use in my Winchester M70 with factory 24" barrel is 56.0 gr. That is in Winchester cases with WLR primers. The velocity runs right at 2757 fps. I have measured the psi at 60,000. That has been my standard 30-06 hunting load in several other 30-06s also for many years.

OK, thanks very much Larry, that is really helpful. Yes, it's a Savage 110, factory 24" barrel. The cases are WW but the primers I have on hand are CCI LR 200's (I have but a few Winchester LR's left). I will take a fresh look at the data with your info accordingly. The only thing I would ask about is if there's some reason re pressure why Hornady specifically with its Interlock SP maxes out at 54.3, but in Hogdon and Speer's own data, I see 56.0-56.5 for other bullets.

Much appreciated.

Edit: Sorry, Larry, I just re-read and saw you specifically mention you run your Hornady's at this level. I'll recalibrate and try the higher range out.

[ascast]

My 2 cents: I use 46 grains of IMR 4895 under a Sierra 168 Game king. Gun is a custom match rifle w/20 x scope. This was/is my match load using the Match king bullet. I do not carry in the field. This rifle sits in the barn during season and over looks the 6 acre hay field. Longest shot is 400 =/- yards.

[Larry Gibson]

The 30-06 cartridge has proven itself in its 117 year history to be an excellent cartridge. I not only use it most often for hunting big game but also as a match cartridge in a M1906A1 National Match rifle and in a built M70 rifle specifically built for long range shooting. Longe range to me is from 1000 to 1500 yards. I have several places to do that out in the desert here plus there is a 1000 yard range 60 miles north of me. Here is the rifle; a M70 CRF action with a 32" Broughton 12" twist barrel. It was barreled and chambered in 30-06 XCB by Tim Malcom of MBT, a member here. The stock is a McMillan A5 and the scope is a Night Force NXS. The load I use is either a 178 Hornady match, a Sierra 178 TNK or a Hornady 178 ELDX over 59 gr of IMR 4831 in Winchester cases with WLR primers. Velocity is 3025 fps. Accuracy is 1/2 moa at 300 yards. Here is the rifle and a 10 shot zero confirmation at 300 yards [my base line zero]

[Bigslug]

All the lawyers in the employ of those publishing the manuals would cringe at this statement, but: Manuals are guidelines.

The bottom end loads are deemed to be safe starting points for the VAST array of components that can - and will - be swapped out for those listed in the recipe, and also for the variation of components from varied production lots over possibly decades. Variation in internal case volume is a very real thing - ESPECIALLY in a round like the .30-06 that can be made thicker for military applications where not ripping off case heads in machineguns is the critical concern; versus commercial rounds made thinner with the intent of getting more powder in for higher speeds.

The top end loads will always get the disclaimer to work up to them cautiously and not to exceed them, but while some combination of rifles and components will give you the signs to stop before you get to book max, others will quite happily go a bit beyond.

The simple fact is that even if you were exact down to same production lots of the manual's brass, powder, primer, and bullet, you're still not shooting THEIR rifle, soooooo, like I say, manuals are guidelines.

[frogleg]

I also used 56gr of IMR4350 with Hornady 165gr pointed soft points in my sporterized 1903 Springfield in the 1970s & 80s the load was very accurate. Great memories.

[samari46]

I use 54.5 or 55.5 grains IMR 4350 with either 165 grain Noslers or 168 SMK and average velocities are around 2800 FPS. Very accurate in at least 5 rifles I've shot either load in. Frank

[huntinlever]

The 30-06 cartridge has proven itself in its 117 year history to be an excellent cartridge. I not only use it most often for hunting big game but also as a match cartridge in a M1906A1 National Match rifle and in a built M70 rifle specifically built for long range shooting. Longe range to me is from 1000 to 1500 yards. I have several places to do that out in the desert here plus there is a 1000 yard range 60 miles north of me. Here is the rifle; a M70 CRF action with a 32" Broughton 12" twist barrel. It was barreled and chambered in 30-06 XCB by Tim Malcom of MBT, a member here. The stock is a McMillan A5 and the scope is a Night Force NXS. The load I use is either a 178 Hornady match, a Sierra 178 TNK or a Hornady 178 ELDX over 59 gr of IMR 4831 in Winchester cases with WLR primers. Velocity is 3025 fps. Accuracy is 1/2 moa at 300 yards. Here is the rifle and a 10 shot zero confirmation at 300 yards [my base line zero]

Sorry for the delay. First I'm blown away by your marksmanship. Secondly, I'm badly jealous of your shooting locale. I grew up shooting in a place with all chapparal in little finger valleys, so each hill slope or cliffside was a natural backstop. But nothing of the open long range shooting where you are, good for you.

Thanks on the info. Can you tell me why you'd go with a 4831 v. 4350? Is there an association of lower burn rate and long range shooting?

Additionally, how do you feel about the Hogdon versions of both v. the IMR versions (as to accuracy, generally, if such a generalization can be had. Not temperature insensitivity). I have I 4350 and 4831 on hand, as well as the H 4831 SC.

***

Not related to the 30-06 question, but while here. .338 WM. Note the H I only use in the .338 WM with 225 HDY SP. Also loading up the same powder with 225 Hdy SP-RP and 250 Barnes TSX. For the 250 grain bullets, I also have on hand RE 22 as I've seen some anecdotal commentary supporting the powder in the 250-higher range. Thoughts for the powders, for the .338 in these bullets?

[huntinlever]

All the lawyers in the employ of those publishing the manuals would cringe at this statement, but: Manuals are guidelines.

The bottom end loads are deemed to be safe starting points for the VAST array of components that can - and will - be swapped out for those listed in the recipe, and also for the variation of components from varied production lots over possibly decades. Variation in internal case volume is a very real thing - ESPECIALLY in a round like the .30-06 that can be made thicker for military applications where not ripping off case heads in machineguns is the critical concern; versus commercial rounds made thinner with the intent of getting more powder in for higher speeds.

The top end loads will always get the disclaimer to work up to them cautiously and not to exceed them, but while some combination of rifles and components will give you the signs to stop before you get to book max, others will quite happily go a bit beyond.

The simple fact is that even if you were exact down to same production lots of the manual's brass, powder, primer, and bullet, you're still not shooting THEIR rifle, soooooo, like I say, manuals are guidelines.

OK thanks. Good info, much appreciated.

[huntinlever]

I also used 56gr of IMR4350 with Hornady 165gr pointed soft points in my sporterized 1903 Springfield in the 1970s & 80s the load was very accurate. Great memories.

Thanks for the post.

[huntinlever]

I use 54.5 or 55.5 grains IMR 4350 with either 165 grain Noslers or 168 SMK and average velocities are around 2800 FPS. Very accurate in at least 5 rifles I've shot either load in. Frank

Thanks for the post. Not heard of SMK?

[Ithaca Gunner]

Paul, about 30 years ago in a conversation with one of the tech's at Sierra Bullets I was advised to switch to H-4350 from the IMR version in .30/06. I buy H-4350 by the 8lb jug and haven't used the IMR version since. My brother uses Accurate 4350 in everything from .243 Win to .300 Win Mag. H-4350 is also a favorite choice of mine for .338 Win Mag.
The two are not interchangeable though somewhat close.

[huntinlever]

Paul, about 30 years ago in a conversation with one of the tech's at Sierra Bullets I was advised to switch to H-4350 from the IMR version in .30/06. I buy H-4350 by the 8lb jug and haven't used the IMR version since. My brother uses Accurate 4350 in everything from .243 Win to .300 Win Mag. H-4350 is also a favorite choice of mine for .338 Win Mag.
The two are not interchangeable though somewhat close.

OK great, thanks. I expect I'll burn through a few of my existing powders then commit in 8 lb jugs. My powders of choice so far are AA 5744 for the 45-70, LeverRev for the 30-30 (still comparing 3031), H4831-SC for the 225 and 250 gr .338 WM, and so far happy with the I 4350 in my son's Savage '06. But it might have even been you, who said you found the H versions of the 4350 and 4831 SC were superior to their IMR counterparts in your experience. I'll pick up some H 4350 and give it a shot.

[Larry Gibson]

....... Not heard of SMK?

Sierra Match Kings

[huntinlever]

Sierra Match Kings

Oh, OK, lol. Thanks.

[303carbine]

I've generally shied away from compressed loads. Firstly 100% of my reloading has been 45-70, until picking up loading for my son's rifles again and now, my 338 WM. In the gg, more an issue to get a proper fill v. any compression issues.

That said, I'm a lot more willing to push the boundaries with my own weapons than I am for my son's. Hence, the question.

Bullet: Speer Hot Cor .30 cal 150 gr SNFP
Primer: CCI LR 200
Case: WW
Powder: IMR 4350

These flat points are also what I use in his 30-30's. For rough load development and range practice. We will finalize for hunting season on 150 grain Hornady Interlocks.

Data - maximum (compressed noted by "C"):
Hogdon 2022 (using Nos E-Tip 150 gr): 57.5C
Speer (it's own bullet, this 150 gr SNFP): 59.0 (Note - while Max, they do not show this load as compressed)
Lyman's 51st: 57.0C

In other words, Lyman's shows a MAX/compressed load at 57.0 gr IMR 4350; Hogdon MAX/compressed 57.5 gr; but Speer's own data for its own bullet shows a MAX of 59.0 gr, substantially higher than the other two, and it doesn't even shows this as compressed.

Attachment 312917


In this photo, left column = 57.4 gr, middle 58.0, and right 58.6 grains.

Once the bullet is seated, unless I'm missing what "compression" means, all of these will be compressed. Est. velocity range is L-R 2764, 2800, 2836.

This is a deer load, so it may be that all of these are unnecessarily fast/hot. But regardless - concerns about pretty substantially different maximums, and what the companies deem "compressed," when we're using the same cases. Thoughts?

The 30-06 is very effective with a multiple of bullet weights and rarely benefits from compressed loads, accuracy trumps velocity every time.

[Lloyd Smale]

agreed. i did some load work up on a new model 70 last summer and found with the highest charge weight loads out of about a dozen manuals i was barely breaking 2700 fps with 150s the book said should be breaking 2900. then i got researching and found loads fot 150s for the 270 had higher powder charges. i wont post loads but i slowly worked my way up to 2900 in a 22in barrel and i got there 4 grain more with still not a bit of pressure sign. then i took my old favorite 700 06 out on day t0 the range along with my 16 inch ar10. load in the 06 was a book load with re19 that was suppose to be at 2900. it ran 2650 out of the 22 in barrel and my book load for the same 150 interlock 0ut of the 16in ar10 308 ran 2725. so for years i was basicaly shooting lame 308 loads out of that 700. I did re address the load in that 700 again to the same level with no pressure signs but the comical thing is i had nick named that old 700 thumper because i used it on and off for crop damage shooting over more then 15 years and it has probably killed a 100 deer and a few out to 400 yards and my buddy and i always shook our heads because it was very rare that gun and load didnt have a DRT kill

[toallmy]

My hunting load for the 3006 is a compressed charge of IMR 4350 + Speer a bullet , as I worked up the charge I hit good shooting and kept going to the max book charge . More powder did not make it shoot better or worse for that matter . I honestly considered switching over to IMR 4064 to get more velocity but decided dead is dead . This is out of a short barrel 06 .
Glad to see you posting again Lloyd