30-06, IMR 4350, differing MAX/Compressed levels.

[huntinlever]

I've generally shied away from compressed loads. Firstly 100% of my reloading has been 45-70, until picking up loading for my son's rifles again and now, my 338 WM. In the gg, more an issue to get a proper fill v. any compression issues.

That said, I'm a lot more willing to push the boundaries with my own weapons than I am for my son's. Hence, the question.

Bullet: Speer Hot Cor .30 cal 150 gr SNFP
Primer: CCI LR 200
Case: WW
Powder: IMR 4350

These flat points are also what I use in his 30-30's. For rough load development and range practice. We will finalize for hunting season on 150 grain Hornady Interlocks.

Data - maximum (compressed noted by "C"):
Hogdon 2022 (using Nos E-Tip 150 gr): 57.5C
Speer (it's own bullet, this 150 gr SNFP): 59.0 (Note - while Max, they do not show this load as compressed)
Lyman's 51st: 57.0C

In other words, Lyman's shows a MAX/compressed load at 57.0 gr IMR 4350; Hogdon MAX/compressed 57.5 gr; but Speer's own data for its own bullet shows a MAX of 59.0 gr, substantially higher than the other two, and it doesn't even shows this as compressed.




In this photo, left column = 57.4 gr, middle 58.0, and right 58.6 grains.

Once the bullet is seated, unless I'm missing what "compression" means, all of these will be compressed. Est. velocity range is L-R 2764, 2800, 2836.

This is a deer load, so it may be that all of these are unnecessarily fast/hot. But regardless - concerns about pretty substantially different maximums, and what the companies deem "compressed," when we're using the same cases. Thoughts?

[slam45]

one reason IMR 4350 has been so popular in the 30-06 is that its real difficult to get enough in an '06 case to be a problem... i never got the velocity published with it ( i too have reservations packing powder real tight), but found some loads that shoot real well... never saw the need to run hot '06 loads for deer... 150gr bullets at max in the '06 produce more bloodshot meat than i like... H4350, H414, IMR4064 and Varget all have been better choices for me... 165 BTSP seems to be the one i keep going back to, but 180s work well to...

[fatnhappy]

I've generally shied away from compressed loads. Firstly 100% of my reloading has been 45-70, until picking up loading for my son's rifles again and now, my 338 WM. In the gg, more an issue to get a proper fill v. any compression issues.

That said, I'm a lot more willing to push the boundaries with my own weapons than I am for my son's. Hence, the question.

Bullet: Speer Hot Cor .30 cal 150 gr SNFP
Primer: CCI LR 200
Case: WW
Powder: IMR 4350

These flat points are also what I use in his 30-30's. For rough load development and range practice. We will finalize for hunting season on 150 grain Hornady Interlocks.

Data - maximum (compressed noted by "C"):
Hogdon 2022 (using Nos E-Tip 150 gr): 57.5C
Speer (it's own bullet, this 150 gr SNFP): 59.0 (Note - while Max, they do not show this load as compressed)
Lyman's 51st: 57.0C

In other words, Lyman's shows a MAX/compressed load at 57.0 gr IMR 4350; Hogdon MAX/compressed 57.5 gr; but Speer's own data for its own bullet shows a MAX of 59.0 gr, substantially higher than the other two, and it doesn't even shows this as compressed.




In this photo, left column = 57.4 gr, middle 58.0, and right 58.6 grains.

Once the bullet is seated, unless I'm missing what "compression" means, all of these will be compressed. Est. velocity range is L-R 2764, 2800, 2836.

This is a deer load, so it may be that all of these are unnecessarily fast/hot. But regardless - concerns about pretty substantially different maximums, and what the companies deem "compressed," when we're using the same cases. Thoughts?

You're completely correct, compression is just that, physically compressing the powder and all those would be compressed.
I have to ask, Are you using extended drop tubes? In my experience 58 grains of IMR 4350 in full length sized federal 06 brass is base of the neck when I use a 10" drop tube. I'll double check my load notes on that and post a picture tonight when I'm home

That being said, I generally prefer compressed loads. One of my favorites in the 7-08 is heavily compressed enough to require a crimp, otherwise the compression will actually grow COAL. (pictured)






per promise but late: edited to add a pic of 58.0 grains of IMR4350 in fl sized federal 06 brass. It's right at the base of the neck when dropped through a 10" extended drop tube

[huntinlever]

I've always preferred heavy for caliber and slower bullets myself in the deer woods, and my son prefers to shoot 170 and above as well in the '06. So I'll take a second look at the Hot Cors in both 165 and 180, and same for the Hornady Interlocks. Thanks.

[atr]

4350 is one of the best powders for the -06. I have never had any problem with using it as a "compressed" load, as long as the load was within the published load guidelines. Published load guidelines all vary as to maximum loads and if I were you I would approach the maximum loads with caution.
atr

[Winger Ed.]

I'm a big fan of IMR 4831 for .30-06.
I've used a lot of 4350 too, but I keep coming back to 4831.
It's also one that you can't get enough powder into the case to get into much trouble.

My charges are slightly compressed, but not by much.
I don't have a drop tube, but hold the full case and funnel with one hand, and thump the case a few times.
The powder settles on down into the neck.

[Larry Gibson]

I've been reloading the 30-06 since '74 for many years. This has been in numerous different rifles for different reason. For hunting the big game [deer, elk, caribou, sheep, etc.] the 30-06 in a bolt gun as my favorite and most often used cartridge. For hunting I have tried numerous bullets and different powders over the years including the 4350s. I consider IMR 4350 my go to powder for use with 178 - 180 gr jacketed bullets. With those jacketed bullet weights load density is very close to 100%. I prefer H4931 SC for use with 190, 200 and 220 gr jacketed bullets. With lighter weight jacketed bullets of 125 - 165 gr weight I have not found IMR 4350 to be the best powder for that. IMR4895, H4895, Reloader 15 and Varget are all much better powders giving maximum performance (accuracy/velocity) w/o the compression issues you are finding with IMR 4350.

If you must use the IMR 4350 with 150 gr jacketed bullets I suggest you either use the drop tube as mentioned or holding the index finger over the mouth of the charged case tap the head lightly numerous times on the bench top. That can settle the powder into the case a surprising amount.

[eastbank]

for at least 50 years i have been useing 56 grs imr 4350 and 165 gr bullets in at least seven 3006,s and all liked that load, shooting into one and a half inch 5 shot groups or better at 100 yards.

[huntinlever]

You're completely correct, compression is just that, physically compressing the powder and all those would be compressed.
I have to ask, Are you using extended drop tubes? In my experience 58 grains of IMR 4350 in full length sized federal 06 brass is base of the neck when I use a 10" drop tube. I'll double check my load notes on that and post a picture tonight when I'm home

That being said, I generally prefer compressed loads. One of my favorites in the 7-08 is heavily compressed enough to require a crimp, otherwise the compression will actually grow COAL. (pictured)

Great, thanks for the info. No, I'm just using the standard RCBS funnel set and without even knowing about a drop tube, I wondered if the powder was essentially filling "fluffy." I'll look into it. Much appreciated.

[huntinlever]

Wow, missed your posts, atr, Larry, Ed and Eastbank. Thanks a ton, really helpful. I should probably have gone with the impulse in the first place, that is, 170 or heavier. It's my bent in general and for some reason I went along with probably too much reading and overthinking it.

My son actually wanted in the 200 range, which I thought was excessive for deer. On other hand, at woods distances, again heavy and slow doesn't rub me wrong. Is the consensus 180 or a bit heavier, kept to moderate velocities, is still a good choice for northern whitetail?

Larry I've found H 4831 SC is my best powder in the 338 WM. I'm using it on 225 Interlocks but have both some 250 SP-RP Interlocks and 250 Barnes TSX's. This would be for a planned later hunt out west, but thanks for the breakdown on weights and powders - not sure if your comments on this apply only to the 30-06 itself, or can be a rule of thumb with other calibers, but helpful regardless.

Thanks everyone.

[Winger Ed.]

I've found in a couple of Rem700s, something in the 170s up to 180 really shines in .30-06.
It seems like they want to be accurate.

A cast 190 SP does real well too.

[Texas by God]

Don’t be afraid to use that Speer flat nose on deer. I used it in my .308 and it had more slap factor than the pointed 150 gr bullets I used before that.
They both went through the deer, but the flat nose did more damage inside and deer fell sooner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Harter66]

I've weighed directly and water volume in enough 06' brass to be comfortable with stating that it can vary in its extremes by 25 gr of brass and 10 gr of water within headstamps and even in ammunition lots . It's zero surprise to me that there's 2-3 gr of difference in load data for 4350 I or H with case volumes varying roughly 3-4 .177 BBs .
Get that 59 gr load in a small volume case it's possible to be exceeding on 3000 fps with a 150 jacket .

[farmbif]

its always been my belief that 30-06 with 165 or 180 grain game kings or other spire point jacketed bullets is good for hunting just about everything in North America.
ive been loading 56 grains of imr 4350 with the 165 game kings for decades for the 700BDL. thats a load I worked up a very long time ago using the old lot Remington of brass I have. but ive got a few gallons of norma brass ive yet to try and when I get into it will once again start low and work up a load.
the OP states he is just beginning to load other calibers beyond the 45-70. as with any metallic cartridge reloading start low and work your load up and test fire in your gun to check accuracy and look for overpressure signs. the brass your using may have less or more volume than what was used when a reloading book was being developed. especially in a caliber as 30-06 there is a lot of different brass out there.

[Winger Ed.]

Don’t be afraid to use that Speer flat nose on deer.

True.

Years ago, the owner of a famous gun store in Dallas was closing and retiring-
I fell into a super cut throat deal--- with a brother in law & preacher's discount, I bought several hundred .30 and .270
Hornady round nose bullets for around 3-4 bucks per 100 he had left over from the 1970s.

I used them for everything since they were so cheap, and quite accurate.
Everybody poo-pooed me for not having the latest and greatest satellite guided SPs and said they just wouldn't do...

I asked them if that was true, why did all the African big and dangerous game rifles that were made for some serious killing,,,,
the big Rigbys and Holland and Holland rifles exclusively use Lead exposed round nose, and had for 100 years?

Then it always got real quiet before they changed the subject.

[shooter bob]

The nosler etip is a copper bullet that makes a difference in lengt. I believe that is what’s causing the conpressed load

[huntinlever]

its always been my belief that 30-06 with 165 or 180 grain game kings or other spire point jacketed bullets is good for hunting just about everything in North America.
ive been loading 56 grains of imr 4350 with the 165 game kings for decades for the 700BDL. thats a load I worked up a very long time ago using the old lot Remington of brass I have. but ive got a few gallons of norma brass ive yet to try and when I get into it will once again start low and work up a load.
the OP states he is just beginning to load other calibers beyond the 45-70. as with any metallic cartridge reloading start low and work your load up and test fire in your gun to check accuracy and look for overpressure signs. the brass your using may have less or more volume than what was used when a reloading book was being developed. especially in a caliber as 30-06 there is a lot of different brass out there.

Thanks much - I should clarify, I do have some experience with 30-06, 30-30 and .44 mag., but it has been many years away and of these, the 30-06 and .44 mag were mine, so I was willing to test out limits more; my son's 30-30 I kept it moderate (basically, best emulation of Corelokts) out of precaution. Now that I'm loading 30-06 (and his 30-30), I'm again approaching with more caution than I'd feel comfortable doing for myself. That said, looking at my total time reloading, I've a ton more experience with my guide gun - not that I would call myself anything other than a guy who gets the basics, looks for dependable hunting loads, and stops there. Learned tons here and continue to today.

[huntinlever]

Don’t be afraid to use that Speer flat nose on deer. I used it in my .308 and it had more slap factor than the pointed 150 gr bullets I used before that.
They both went through the deer, but the flat nose did more damage inside and deer fell sooner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK, thanks. Given my love for the wide meplat 45-70 pill, that makes good sense, thanks. Basically it's come down to three to try out - the 150 SP at top 2750 or so, same with the SNFP, and the 180 Hornady SP, max under 2700.

I'd actually have no problem slowing the loads down, but to be honest, in all my reloading, I've not landed on good loads at anything within the mid-to mid-high range of its max. Took my .338 WM out yesterday and with 225 Hornady SP's and H 4831 SC, best data and groupings were at 99-100% max.

Which brings me to one of the issues I'm foreseeing with the 150 gr bullets and his 30-06. I have to do some range trips but if patterns follow like my experience elsewhere, I anticipate not tightening up until approaching max with the 4350, and that would be way too fast, it seems to me (looking at Hornady, I'm seeing 2900-3000 fps. I would like to keep these cup and cores to well below 2800). Aside from a kind of preference for heavy-for-caliber and slower, this idea of "too fast" and bullet breakup at woods distances comes to mind.

Thoughts?

[huntinlever]

I've weighed directly and water volume in enough 06' brass to be comfortable with stating that it can vary in its extremes by 25 gr of brass and 10 gr of water within headstamps and even in ammunition lots . It's zero surprise to me that there's 2-3 gr of difference in load data for 4350 I or H with case volumes varying roughly 3-4 .177 BBs .
Get that 59 gr load in a small volume case it's possible to be exceeding on 3000 fps with a 150 jacket .

Thank you. Great to know. Too bad we all seem to be in the maybe permanent days of "get what you can." Not a tinkerer - prefer to "get the load" for hunting with known components, and stick with it. But seems we're all having to adjust a lot more than we used to, having to source different components whenever we can.

[huntinlever]

I've found in a couple of Rem700s, something in the 170s up to 180 really shines in .30-06.
It seems like they want to be accurate.

A cast 190 SP does real well too.

Cool. I am developing 180 Hornady SP's at 95-99% of Max, 51.4-53.9 gr I 4350, estimated 2550 - 2690 fps. Thoughts?