Rimless 405 Winchester project.

[backwoods_bob]

Thought project so far. Carcano action, Green Mountain 40 cal barrel, form cases from Carcano brass or 303 British.

Thoughts or opinions?

[Ajohns]

I have not measured exactly, but would 30/06 be rimless and close to straight wall?
Kind of like 400 Whelen

[beechbum444]

I tried to go down this path some time ago … watching closely … came to conclusion that I couldn’t beat a 45 raptor …. Use 06 brass and off the shelf dies …. Regards

[357Mag]

Backwoods -

Howdy !

Yeh... I formed some sample cases of a .411" calibre straight wall case, for a Michigan deer hunter.

What I used was .35 Remington as the parent case. .35 Rem ( Remington brand ) have .40" ID
at the side wall / shoulder inside juncture.

The case oal he wanted for the wildcat was based on the case mouth being positioned to hit the crimp groove in the surplus .405 Winchester bullets he had. That spec'd resulted in the need to iron-out some of the case shoulder to make it part of the " straight case' sidewall..... and expand case' ID to accommodate the .411" cal bullets. I used an expander to take the case ID out to .002" under desired bullet diam, to provide at least
some starting point for bullet retention / sidewall " tension ".

Use of .35 Remington as the parent case would have allowed the wildcat to be shot from a M-336.

A downside to his wildcat idea was that it would have required a custom chamber reamer.... as a minimum.
The above wildcat was certainly do-able w/o undue effort.

Now, what would have been even more sensible would have been: use 7 X 64 Brenneke as the parent case. This would have allowed the chamber to be cut using a rented .405 Winchester. And loading/re-loading cases could have been accomplished using stock .405Win dies..... even if some dies would have required shortening.

The 7 X 64 Brenneke case has a modest .014" increase in base diam above .35 Remington base diam.
This would still make for a wildcat safe for use in a M-336 ( example ), as-long-as the shooter/re-loading
respects pressure limits that are sensible for re-load in a M-336 action.

The rifle's bot face would need a modest increase in diam to accommodate the .466" rim diam of a 7 X 64 case


The stock M-336 extractor should work ok w/ the 7 X 64 parent case.

The cartridge oal of the proposed wildcat, set-up for a case oal that locates the case' mouth at the crimp groove.... and does not exceed .35 Rem cartridge oal ( if used in a M-336 ).

Since .35 Remington case' ID is constant .040" ( Remington brand cases ) from the internal sidewall / shoulder
juncture to about .125" above the inside case webb...... one could make the .35 Rem-based wildcat or for that matter.... the 7 X 64-based wildcat the case he wants ( for example.... longer than 1.920" case oal ) up to the limits the parent case AOL allows.... or the rifle allows ( a bolt action application for example )


With regards,
357Mag

[357Mag]

Backwoods -

OOoops !

Forgot to mention in my initial response to your post, that...

When using an existing ( rented ) .405 Winchester reamer to cut a chamber for a .411" cal wildcat based on
7 X 64 brass; the reamer would be run-in " short " ; to obtain the required .466" base diam.
In this instance, .405Win case side wall taper / taper rate would then dictate the resulting wildcat case's oal.
This taper rate is more favorable ( IMHO ) and allows for a good / useful case' oal.


With regards,
357Mag

[dtknowles]

The 30-06 case is too large a diameter for the Carcano bolt/extractor. I think the 7.62 x 39 case family has the right case head diameter but it might be a bit short.
Tim