annealing with moltenlead

[cosmoline one]

I'v.e never needed to anneal before, but need to anneal before forming 11mm mauser from 7 rem mag.Those who dip cases in lead, can you go over details?
What temperature (if known), how long in lead, does lead remain in cases?

[georgerkahn]

I'v.e never needed to anneal before, but need to anneal before forming 11mm mauser from 7 rem mag.Those who dip cases in lead, can you go over details?
What temperature (if known), how long in lead, does lead remain in cases?

I'd love to provide a quick and concise answer to your great question! BUT -- I cannot. The process of annealing is, imho, a tad too complicated -- not really "complicated" -- perhaps I should have typed, "not simple enough" for an answer. There are ever so many resources on this subject, but to get you going I might suggest you check out a pretty good story printed by Wolfe Publishing in one of their magazines: https://www.handloadermagazine.com/a...ng-rifle-brass

This should definitely get you on the right track to accomplishing your annealing quest. I will add that my "go to" anneal checker is a pair of Vice-Grip pliers. What you might consider doing, once you form your 11mm Mauser, is to turn the handle on the end of Vice Grips to be snug with cartridge mouth end, open the pliers, and then turn the screw one to two turns clockwise. Then, when you close the pliers, it wlil make the round case mouth into an oblong/egg shape. What you hope for is that, upon pliers release, the case will revert back to being a round circle. This is a not-too-shabby way of telling annealing success! If, on the other hand, the brass does not distort -- you are in need -- e.g., have not sufficiently -- annealed your case. Annnd, the "bad one" -- if the case does NOT spring back -- oops! -- you've over-annealed the brass, and it is now, imho, JUNK! Too soft to hold the bullet you wish to load in it...

BEST wishges.... Read the article? (Also, a great one to read, too (also free) is Glen Fryxell's From Ingot to Target: http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

geo

[414gates]

You can skip the molten lead, unless you prefer making simple jobs complicated.

Hold the case within inch from the rim between two fingers. Rotate the case between your fingers while holding the neck in a gas flame.

When the case gets too hot to hold, it's done. Next.

[Czech_too]

While I have annealed brass using 'melted' lead, it's been some time, I would just as soon use a pan of water(layer cake pan) & a propane torch. If you do use a lead 'melt' do not deprime the brass beforehand.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve always wondered about using lead to anneal brass. However, it’s so simple to use a propane torch, I never tried doing it in lead. I know that gunsmiths use a lead pot to temper small parts after they have been quenched.

[uscra112]

Risk of moisture inside a case would put me off.

[M-Tecs]

I'v.e never needed to anneal before, but need to anneal before forming 11mm mauser from 7 rem mag.Those who dip cases in lead, can you go over details?
What temperature (if known), how long in lead, does lead remain in cases?

https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/thr...h-lead.190062/
A neghbor and good freind at 80+ years old has been reloading and as well as casting his own bullets for longer then I have been alive. We had a discussion about annealing brass and the benifits. I told him about some of the new expensive gizmos some use to get lesser results as in not as consistant. So, I bought a cheep melting pot and started annealing. The reason for using lead for annealing is to keep the temperature low enough for proper uniform annealing, and that is simply not possible using the torch method. With a torch the case is often heated on one side more than the other, temperatures are not readily repeatable from case to case, and in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other. To minimize the likelihood of lead sticking to the brass case it is best to use as close to pure lead as possible (although any lead alloy will work). Anneal your cases with the fired primers left in, as that forms an airlock that keeps lead away from the inside of the case. With respect to annealing cases using molten lead, basically you: set the thermostat on your pot at seven hundred to eight hundred degrees ‘F’ pick up each case by the head and dip the neck of the cases about a quarter-inch into some powdered graphite or light oil (vegetable oil is fine) but my buddie used 30 wt. The oil keeps lead from sticking to the brass. Shake off any excess oil, dip the neck, shoulder, and about a quarter-inch of the case body into the molten lead and just as you begin to feel an uncomfortable degree of heat in your finger tips, drop the case into water. If you hold the cases in some other way than with your bare fingers, leave them in the molten lead from eight to twelve, but not more than fifteen seconds. When the case is hot enough that the lead does not cling to it, it is annealed. Pull the case up out of the lead, tap on the side of the case to remove any bits of lead (if the lead is really sticking, the case isn't annealed!), then drop it mouth down (straight) into a container that is mostly full of ice water. Following the anneal, it would be wise to closely inspect the inside of the case both visually and with a bent paper clip just to make sure there are no lead drippings adhering to the inside the case. Because it only takes a few seconds per case, you can anneal hundreds of cases in an hour with this method. After the annealing process, remove the cases from the water. Then, dry and tumble the cases to remove any traces of residual oil and they are ready to process.
For any of you concerned about fumes Jay lived to be in his 80s and still sharp as a tac.

more info here

https://www.longrangehunting.com/thr...process.54013/

[turtlezx]

size of the brass will vary the secs it takes to anneal i do 218 bee and 5 secs does it

[414gates]

[...in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other.

There is no need to drop brass into water.

The stress relieving stops when the heat source is removed.

There is no change induced in the metal by the sudden temperature change, so the term "quench" does not apply to brass.

[JSnover]

There is no need to drop brass into water.

The stress relieving stops when the heat source is removed.

There is no change induced in the metal by the sudden temperature change, so the term "quench" does not apply to brass.

That's correct. If anything, the water keeps the case head cool but it's a moot point since the brass is so thin it doesn't take long to get it hot enough.

[Teddy (punchie)]

very interesting and thinking I going to have to try this.

[rockrat]

I would anneal 50cal by dunking the neck in molten lead for a count of seven. As said, don't deprime the fired case. When I pulled the case neck out of the lead, I would "tap" it on the side of the pot, then drop in a box. Might have a bit of lead cling to the outside of the neck, but it would wipe right off with a rag (once it has cooled)

[cosmoline one]

Thanks for the replies M-tecs & GeorgeKahn, thanks for the detailed answers.Think I'm gonna try the candle method 1st

[cosmoline one]

Update- Success! Thanks again for the help. I first tried the candle method but I guess not all candles burn the same, mine wasn't hot enough & I still got split necks. Next I used a blowtorch & 42 of 42 cases formed without splitting!
Left to right: 7mm rem mag, belt turned off & sized w/expander removed(loaded with 700x, cream of wheat & wax cap, fire-formed case, and after trimming

[john.k]

Ive always used a torch,but decided to try the candle .....I was very sceptical it would work,but it does work,too well in my case and the case was too soft and the neck collapsed ......even if it does work ,its too slow ,so back to the torch.

[indian joe]

Ive always used a torch,but decided to try the candle .....I was very sceptical it would work,but it does work,too well in my case and the case was too soft and the neck collapsed ......even if it does work ,its too slow ,so back to the torch.

The pan of water and quick heat from a torch allows for control of how far down the case its softened - important ! --too slow / too much and you get collapsed shoulders

[imashooter2]

I use molten salt bath and time them with a metronome application on my phone.

[MarkP]

Keep the spent primers in the case and I found dirty cases didn't have lead sticking to the necks. I prefer to rotate the case with bare fingers in a dark room (neck should be uniform dull red color) and drop into water when it get uncomfortable to rotate. I drop in water to cool off.

[barnetmill]

Risk of moisture inside a case would put me off.

For moisture what I am thinking is to put them in an oven at say 300 degrees for several hours after tumbling clean. But moisture is still a concern if I do it in the summer outside, even in the shade. I live in Florida and could do it in the winter to avoid any sort of sweat getting on it.
But I am thinking the torch is overall safer. I have some old record turn tables and I think there is speed below 33 rpm on them to rotate them with the base in water.
I am planning to make 300 blackout cases from 5.56. I have read that much of the GI brass is already anneal low enough down on the case so that even after case trimming annealing is often not needed.
The one time that I tried annealing cases was years ago with some herters 22-250 brass that has been reduced made from 250-3000 brass and the necks really were splitting on it. The annealing that I tried did not seem to work.

[3584ELK]

Update- Success! Thanks again for the help. I first tried the candle method but I guess not all candles burn the same, mine wasn't hot enough & I still got split necks. Next I used a blowtorch & 42 of 42 cases formed without splitting!
Left to right: 7mm rem mag, belt turned off & sized w/expander removed(loaded with 700x, cream of wheat & wax cap, fire-formed case, and after trimming

That's an excellent result for case forming to that degree!