New source of gas check material for those who roll their own...

[AZ-Stew]

I haven't had a Bud in years. Mic is OK, and the Mic Amber is reasonable, but I'm partial to some German brews (Paulaner Salvator is my favorite) and a number of domestic microbrews. The Salvator is probably the ultimate in beers that have a full malt flavor, while a number of domestic micros give a fabulous hop flavor. Hazed and Infused by Boulder Beer in Boulder, CO, is one of them. There are a number of pretenders, that in their own right have good hoppiness as well as a full malt, but H&I is the best. One of my favorite weekend pastimes is opening one each of Salvator and H&I and drinking them alternately to get the full effect of the brewer's art as applied to both of them. Malt - Hops - Malt - Hops! It's a rolercoaster ride of flavor.

Bud? Well, it's Bud. It's one of the generic "cheap yellow beers" that we guzzle by the millions of barrels each year as Americans. There's certainly nothing about it that grabs one's attention. But now we have a reason to empty a few: that new aluminum bottle that will undoubtably make tens of thousands of gas checks across the country.

Regards,

Stew

[JIMinPHX]

I had thought about making up a compound leverage gizmo with a progressive punch set up on it for making checks on my reloading press. I gave up the idea when I measured a coke can at about 0.004" thick. That's less than a .22 cal GC. These bottles look close enough that I could probably make them work. I may have to adjust some gas check shank sizes a little to get a proper fit, but since I'm starting to make my own molds now, that's not such a stretch for me.

Thanks for breathing new life into an old idea Stew.

[Boerrancher]

I had thought about making up a compound leverage gizmo with a progressive punch set up on it for making checks on my reloading press. I gave up the idea when I measured a coke can at about 0.004" thick. That's less than a .22 cal GC. These bottles look close enough that I could probably make them work. I may have to adjust some gas check shank sizes a little to get a proper fit, but since I'm starting to make my own molds now, that's not such a stretch for me.

Thanks for breathing new life into an old idea Stew.

Jim,

You will not be able to punch this bottle material in a reloading press. I have yet to see a reloading press punch any material greater than 10 thousandths in thickness. Even when testing his die set, Pat Marlin limits the material thickness to 10 thousandths. There is just not enough leverage to get the job done. You will have to make a punch that you can smack with a hammer or use an arbor press on the thicker material.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Reddot]

You guys are completely missing the most important part of this endeavor. ARE YOU COLOR CORRIDINATING YOUR GC WITH YOUR SHOOTING OUTFIT? Boerrancher first you make a nice blue gc and then the next one is silver. Geeze you guys, do you go to the range dressed in jeans, green shirt, orange socks, and a red hat? I am so glad that I am here to help you guys avoid a fashion faux pas.

[kir_kenix]

First off Shiner Bock is the ultimate brew....

Second, why doesn't Hornady or someone similiar start making aluminum gc's? Pretty sure they would be really really cheap, I wouldn't care if they were just recycled beer cans....

I might try and build a punch like BR too. Seems like all i would need is a punch and ejector to make GC's right on my press.

Oh, another cheapo source of .22 gc's....large rifle primers. I've been tearing out the anvil and using 2 tapered punches to expand them large enough to seat on a .22 boolit. Very limited accuracy tests have shown that they are about as accurate as comercial gcs in my rifles. The shiny CCI primers seem to be the easiest to expand and seat.

[JIMinPHX]

Jim,
...I have yet to see a reloading press punch any material greater than 10 thousandths in thickness. ...

I was going to set it up with about 5:1 compound leverage built into the gizmo. A hammer & die shoe would have been my second choice if the leverage thing didn't work.

Thanks for the info,
Jim

[Charlie Sometimes]

Oh, another cheapo source of .22 gc's....large rifle primers. I've been tearing out the anvil and using 2 tapered punches to expand them large enough to seat on a .22 boolit. Very limited accuracy tests have shown that they are about as accurate as comercial gcs in my rifles. The shiny CCI primers seem to be the easiest to expand and seat.

Never thought of that! Man, I am brain dead lately. What size taper punch are you using?
I use a single stage Orange Crusher II to load all of my ammo on, and since I got it (I updated from a Lyman Spartan) I have saved all of the spent primers that it catches, and put them in a plastic container just to see how many rounds I have decaped on it- that jug is getting pretty heavy now! I wondered if I could ever find a use for them- now I think I have one! Thanks again, guys!

This web site continues to intrigue me. I get something postive from it everyday! May the freedom to use this resource always exist!

[Ricochet]

Second, why doesn't Hornady or someone similiar start making aluminum gc's? Pretty sure they would be really really cheap, I wouldn't care if they were just recycled beer cans....

Wonder if the Gatorchecks guy's given any thought to non-copper checks?

[Charlie Sometimes]

We've got an aluminum smelting plant and a rolling plant next door to each other here in WV that is closing and laying off respectively. If they want to help the economy out, they better get busy on ordering and setting up for those check stamping machines! I don't think there are that many aluminum manufacturers left in the US any more, from the way they talk about his closing.

[kir_kenix]

Charlie Sometimes: I'm away from home right now, and I can't remember what punches I used. Different brands of primes require a different punch in the first step, as the thickness is different. It's pretty darn time consuming, so you won't be pumping out thousands of these things with the method i've been using. I've been thinking of making a reloading press die/punch that would do it in one step, but I've never got around to it.

I'll drop the hint to Hornady next time I'm in Grand Island about the aluminum gas checks...but I doubt it'll do much good. Would be nice if somebody would start pumping them out at 1/5th the price of conventional gas checks.

[dakotashooter2]

Check the local printer for aluminum printing plates. Available in several thicknesses. Of course one misses out on the "collection" part.

[Charlie Sometimes]

I was looking at some of my spent primers today and comparing to some checked 22's I have on hand. Yea, even with a die in a press it will still be tedious and slow. When I deprime my cases, a lot of the anvils seem to fall out anyway, so that is a step I won't have to do as much. If you pace yourself, you could do a hundred or so at a time and not get "squint eye" from it!
If you ever make one of those dies, I would love to see it. I'm not a "metalsmith" but I wouldn't think it would take too much to do. I have several ideas in my head now on ways I might accomplish this with just punches and an "anvil". Waste not want not, eh?

[35 Whelen]

Boerrancher, any chance of you posting more pictures of the check punching tool? Maybe with some measurements? I have a lathe, and while I'm no machinist, I could probably make something that would work.
What'd really be nice is if you could maybe show us the process of making the checks.
Thanks,
35W

[trevj]

I'd be pretty interested in knowing why you say that a reloading press cannot punch these thin aluminum disks, when they have enough leverage to swage bullets as well as to reshape brass for cartridge conversions.

Set-up choices? Punch cutting edge shape?

Just seems unreasonable to me. Would love some details on the punch sizes and clearances, as well.

Cheers
Trev

[Cap'n Morgan]

Set-up choices? Punch cutting edge shape?

Good points.

The leverage is at its highest at the top of the stroke. Adjust the die accordingly. Don't worry if it means the disks won't be pushed out of the die; the next disks will do that eventually.

Also, the shape of the cutting edge can lower the required pressure force dramatically. A few degree slope on the punch will result in a longer shearing distance = less force needed. A "V" shape, either pointed or inverted, will do the same, but will be better balanced. The disks will take shape after the profile of the punch, but if you don't overdo it it won't show up in the final gas check.

[keebo52]

Hey guys, I can't find any of the Bud aluminum bottles in my area. Anyone want to empty a few and send me the cans to try?

[trevj]

Good points.

The leverage is at its highest at the top of the stroke. Adjust the die accordingly. Don't worry if it means the disks won't be pushed out of the die; the next disks will do that eventually.

Also, the shape of the cutting edge can lower the required pressure force dramatically. A few degree slope on the punch will result in a longer shearing distance = less force needed. A "V" shape, either pointed or inverted, will do the same, but will be better balanced. The disks will take shape after the profile of the punch, but if you don't overdo it it won't show up in the final gas check.

I was thinking along the same lines. More towards a radius (either concave, or convex) at the cutting edge of the punch itself, so the shear of the material starts at one or more points, then progresses, rather than pressure building until the yield on the entire diameter is reached.

I'm ponderin' a punch and die set that would fit on the reloading press that would allow a guy to run along the edge of a sheet, and pound out a continuous pile of blanks....

Things to ponder....

Cheers
Trev

[Boerrancher]

All I know is that my friend who makes these gizmos and has been making his own gas checks for nearly 20 years and he has never made a successful punch to punch out material thicker than 10 thousandths on a reloading press, and still have it in good enough shape to form into a gas check. Pat Marlin even stated on his gas check forming tool that it would only punch 10 thousandths thick material. Not that I completely disagree with the points that everyone has brought up, but when I have two different men who have worked on developing these tools both say that a reloading press will not reliably punch anything thicker than 10 thou. material, I tend to not even bother to attempt it.

On a separate Note, I will try to get some photos up of my entire 30 cal gas check making process. It is time consuming, but by the number of posts I have I am sure you can tell that I have a lot of that on my hands. I do get some really nice gas checks that seem to shoot as good if not better in some cases than the Hornady or Lyman checks, so I guess it is worth the time.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[Cap'n Morgan]

All I know is that my friend who makes these gizmos and has been making his own gas checks for nearly 20 years and he has never made a successful punch to punch out material thicker than 10 thousandths on a reloading press, and still have it in good enough shape to form into a gas check.

Joe,

I'm a certified tool & die maker; trust me on this

The cutting force needed is a product of shear length x material thickness.

A punch with a concave shape twice the height of the material thickness, will only require approx half the cutting force.

The radius of the concave shear necessary for a .02 thick .30 cal gas check will pretty much follow the outside of a beer can - just in case someone should need a grinding template.

[JIMinPHX]

Captain,

Should that be a spherical concave shape or a cylindrical concave shape? I seem to remember seeing electrician's punch out tools (Greenlee?) that were cylindrically concave & I've seen punches on progressive stamping machines that had spherical relief. I'm wondering which would be better here & why. If you could give me any clues, I'd appreciate it. I was thinking that the cylindrical relief leaves a good hole, but the knock out ends up looking like a potato chip. That might have something to do with it, but I really don't know. I haven't made many punches. Again, any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim