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Thread: Copper or Aluminum

  1. #101
    Boolit Master
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    I reload on a SS. I touch every case immediately after sizing. Never noticed any increase in temperature of my cases or die, TBH. There's definitely heat from friction, but it's insignificant in comparison to a powder charge going off right inside of the case.

    The reforming of the case also creates some (very small) amount of heat. But in most properly functioning semiautos, the case is not reformed during extraction. So I think my "analogy" was fair. Do a mag dump, first, to heat the gun up. Then put a case in and jack it out as hard/quick as you can. I bet it won't be as hot as a case you manually eject gently but immediately after firing a cartridge in a cold gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by TD1886 View Post
    On the joules of energy I never once said that powder didn't burn hot.
    No. You said this. You're still trying to prove it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TD1886 View Post
    do I really think an ejected cartridge case main heat source is friction, no, I know it is.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by gloob View Post
    I reload on a SS. I touch every case immediately after sizing. Never noticed any increase in temperature of my cases or die, TBH. There's definitely heat from friction, but it's insignificant in comparison to a powder charge going off right inside of the case.

    The reforming of the case also creates some (very small) amount of heat. But in most properly functioning semiautos, the case is not reformed during extraction. So I think my "analogy" was fair. Do a mag dump, first, to heat the gun up. Then put a case in and jack it out as hard/quick as you can. I bet it won't be as hot as a case you manually eject gently but immediately after firing a cartridge in a cold gun.



    No. You said this. You're still trying to prove it.
    I know the main heat cause in an extracted case is friction. I said what I said to be sarcastic when I said no. So you can get off that kick because you don't have anything on me.

    When friction welding of steels, the weld interface reaches temperature up to 1300 degs C.


    With sizing 45-70 cases in the manner I described they are a little bit more then just warm.
    Last edited by TD1886; 05-09-2023 at 05:02 PM.

  3. #103
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    [QUOTE=gloob;5573322]I'm glad I didn't put you off, yet. I know I am annoying, and I'm trying to improve on that.


    gloob you said that. Yup, you're right, you are annoying!! LOL

  4. #104
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopcornSutton View Post
    Many abrasives have aluminum in them. Ever see the term "aluminum oxide"? But with a gas check, there is hardly any bearing surface that could cause wear.

    As far as the elasticity of aluminum, that may be true. But, copper can be the same way if it is not annealed properly. Several have written they anneal gas checks to make them dead soft, the same reason you anneal case necks so they won't crack or if you are manipulating the case for a wildcat.
    Aluminum Oxide is not aluminum, it's an oxide of Aluminum and in no way the same thing.

  5. #105
    Boolit Master
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    The surface of aluminum oxidizes very rapidly, once exposed to air. Less than a second. Aluminum checks are covered in aluminum oxide. But the layer is so thin and smooth, the "grit" would be very high. Aluminum checks should burnish a new and rough bore, a bit. But nothing more would happen once all the sharp micro-points and edges had been smoothed.

    Rifle barrels die from gas erosion in the throat. Pistol barrels can last practically forever. Shooting aluminum checks shouldn't really matter in any firearm.

  6. #106
    Boolit Buddy braddock's Avatar
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    The only thing I've noticed is when using the lee sizer pushing the aluminum gcs through can cause flashing round the base, whereas I don't get this effect with either brass or copper.
    In the attached image the boolits go, from left to right185 grn round nose copper gc, 160 grn FP brass gc, 175 grn FP aluminum gc where the flashing I refer to is visible and 155 swaged wadcutter with aluminum gc with no flashing. All were sized in the same Lee 309 sizing die.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #107
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    MUSTANG's Avatar
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    I believe that many are confusing Aluminum Oxide (a chemical compound) and Aluminum Corrosion (exposure to atmospherical impacts). Aluminum Oxide is either a manmade compound - or a natural occurring phenomena over many millennia.

    I use Amerimax .014 Roofing material for most of my Gas Checks. Despite many, many, many thousands of rounds I have not seen any affects from the Aluminum Checks.

    ALUMINUM OXIDE
    (or Aluminium(III) oxide) is a chemical compound of aluminium and oxygen with the chemical formula Al2O3. It is the most commonly occurring of several aluminium oxides, and specifically identified as aluminium oxide. It is commonly called alumina and may also be called aloxide, aloxite, or alundum in various forms and applications. It occurs naturally in its crystalline polymorphic phase α-Al2O3 as the mineral corundum, varieties of which form the precious gemstones ruby and sapphire. Al2O3 is significant in its use to produce aluminium metal, as an abrasive owing to its hardness, and as a refractory material owing to its high melting point.


    CORROSION BEHAVIOR OF ALUMINUM IN ATMOSPHERE
    From the extensive weight-loss studies conducted around the world on aluminum corrosion rates of 0.03 to 4 µm/year have been reported. The corrosivity of a location would depend upon the distance the airborne salt travels, the direction and velocity of the wind, the frequency of the prevailing wind and topography of the coast and the expanse of seawater over which the wind has come. The salt content drops rapidly with increasing distance from the sea.

    Loss of tensile strength can occur due to atmospheric corrosion. In rural area's atmosphere, the corrosion rate averages 0.03 µm/year (0.001 mils/year). In industrial locations, the corrosion rates average 0.8–0.28 µm/year (0.03–0.11 mils/year). In certain polluted environments, a higher corrosion rate of 13 µm year (0.52 mils/year) was obtained. Table 10.10 shows the corrosion rates of aluminum and selected aluminum alloys in different environments.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  8. #108
    Boolit Buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by archangel2003 View Post
    Aluminum Oxide is not aluminum, it's an oxide of Aluminum and in no way the same thing.
    agreed!!

  9. #109
    Boolit Master
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    In practice, aluminum is very corrosion resistant. It doesn't rust when exposed to water and air, like steel.

    But pure aluminum is very reactive. It's so reactive that as soon as it is exposed to air, it oxidizes near instantly, forming aluminum oxide. But this layer is super thin before it blocks the pure aluminum underneath from air.

    An aluminum gas check is completely covered with aluminum oxide.

    To be much of an abrasive you need chunks of aluminum oxide through and through. A nanometer thick coating of aluminum oxide won't abrade your barrel.

  10. #110
    Boolit Buddy
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    Although I have used gator gas checks from Sage for many years and I actually prefer the look of copper I have been making my own aluminum checks out of .014 flashing with great success.

  11. #111
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
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    Buy whatever is cheapest , fits your boolit best or what is "In Stock"

    Sage will send you a sample pack to check size / fit ... checks that fall off the boolit are just a royal pain ... buy checks that snap on and stay on ... alumn. or copper , it doesn't really matter ... To me "Fitting" is more important than alumn. or copper .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check