Missouri 205 gr. 8mm PC

[4575wcf]

Hey All
Posted this in the plating/coating forum first. That was probably a bad idea, those guys actually are interested in powder coating some bullets. I posted earlier about my "hard times rifle" the 8 x 54 Krag Jorgensen I built up on an old '91 Mauser I've had since my teens. I chose the 8mm cause it fills the void between the 30's and the 35's, and a bigger hole is better with a cast bullet. I am after range and performance both so it seemed a good choice to experiment with. I tried to get a hard "shell" on my bullets by using an alloy with antimony and quenching them out of the mold into cold water. I cannot say whether that is working well or not, but the Saeco mold drops them pretty close to size so the .323 die in the LubriSizer doesn't distort them much. I set up the press and started loading IMR3031 and chonographing them. Working backwards they started shooting at pretty much exactly 1700 fps, getting one inch consistent groups out of the Mauser twist at 50 yards with the 190 grain Saeco RN. I was out of time so I took it hunting. I killed a wild pig at about 45-50 yard running broadside as fast a wild pig can run, and the bullet performance was stellar. I slipped a bullet through the ribs, blew the heart into soup, and notched a rib bone on exit. Next came a couple of small mule deer does in a depredation hunt my wife and I drew into. The bullet whistled through those little deer without doing much, and we had to follow both of them up. Shots were close. I misplaced my shot a bit left through the tail end of the lungs just forward of the liver. She took off, not leaving much of a blood trail and piled up 40 yards or so away. My wife's was hit 1/4 inch above the spine just above the heart/lung area. That deer was knocked flat, but she got up and it took another bullet in the chest to put her down. I am thinking about trying Missouri Bullet's smooth powder coated 205 gr RN next and see if I can drive those a bit faster and get them to open up. I am applying for elk, when I draw it will be time to put the rig to a real test. Using Missouri's formula I arrive at about 2100 fps and the accepted velocity out of this round in the Norwegian Krag Jorgensen rifle is 2300 with the 196 RN. That would get me awfully close. Has anybody tried them?

[lar45]

Sounds very interesting.
We need pics of your rifle
You might try some air cooled instead of water dropped to get more expansion.
Also what is the groove diameter of your rifle? For my .308 groove rifles, I usually size to .311 to fit the throats well and get very good accuracy that way.
What diameter do the bullets drop at? you might also try some as cast and hand or pan lubed.

[versa-06]

I'm with some others, I like powder coating for higher velocity bullets. It's easy, Give it a try! If I can do it everybody can.

[4575wcf]

Well in the interim while I was waiting for a few fellows to find my post I've been snooping around on the forum. This cast bullet 120000 to 140000 rpm threshold that I have encountered makes a lot of sense. With my 1 in 9.24 metric 8mm twist I hit that threshold just about exactly at 1700 fps. The bullets are in great shape recovered from a soft dirt bank, minus the checks of course but otherwise the bases and grooves are looking great. The target shows a noticeable yaw in the bullet holes, they show definite signs of over stabilizing. I have an old full military Springfield 03/A3 barrel with a dark bore, I wrote off to a place to get it rebored and rifled to 8mm with 1-14 twist. No problem, they can do it but $375 for the bore only, I have to thread, profile, chamber and blue. Anybody know of a reborer who works a bit cheaper? I also got feelers out at the Practical Machinist to see if there are any relining possibilities for the gun. Once rifled out to 1-14 it will be good only for cast and would never see anything hotter than about a 30/40 pressure level. Can't get my image to load this site works differently.

[405grain]

If the bullets that you're digging out of the berm are still looking good, that means they're not expanding. Try not water quenching. The quench will thoroughly harden the bullet, not create a hard shell like when you case harden steel. The point of quench hardening the bullet is so that it will be less likely to strip the rifling at higher velocities. The powder coating and a gas check will give you all the jacket that you need, even with a softer allow. For hunting, expansion will greatly improve a bullets killing power.

[4575wcf]

I think there is nothing for it but to order up a sample batch of Missouri's bullet and load them up until accuracy falls off, go down a half grain and take 'em hunting. I would sure like to get to the 2000 fps threshold, but I don't really think it is going to happen with this fast twist barrel. I built this rifle for the 196 RN tried and true 8mm bullet that is still the best, but unless I want to form them all bets are off.

[versa-06]

If you need velocity with a fast twist it usually means a slower powder 4895 maybe?

[4575wcf]

Well I have some of that to try, also some 4350 left. I thought cast bullets responded better to the faster powders, but I admit to not having done a huge amount of research. Next time I can round up my BFF and his chronograph, I will try these other powders and see if I can pick up a little speed. I still fear, with good reason, that the rotational threshold is what is doing me in and that is going to happen at about 1700 fps regardless of the powder that gets it there. 1700fps does indeed mean that I can use a softer alloy and get increased expansion though. The softer alloy might slug up and hold the rifling better, who knows.

[4575wcf]

lar45-Sorry to ignore your post-I missed it. The Turks were most accommodating on their Mauser barrels and stamped the bore diameter on the breech. This barrel is marked 7.91mm or .31145. The grooves I have not checked but am sizing .323 cause that is the lubrisizer die that I have.

[lar45]

I have an old Turk 8mm that has a way oversized barrel. It slugs at something like .328" !!!
I couldn't get jacketed 150 Speer's to shoot better than 12" at 25yds. Someone here suggested that I try a longer bullet before rebarreling. I tried some Speer 170's and it shoots about 1 1/4" at 100yds now.
This is the first Mauser I sporterised by myself. I'm into it for about $150

[4575wcf]

Does yours have the bore diameter stamped on the breech? They came in both '93 and '98 versions, my barrel came off of an M'93. Perhaps I need to slug the barrel if yours is .328. Even if the bore is right, too deep in the grooves is not good.

[lar45]

Mine is a large ring, M98, but takes small ring barrels.