Cva accura mr-x

[Tradbowhunter]

Ok guys just picked this gun up after a huge failure 2 years ago in the early PA bear season. I was shooting a CVA kodiak mag and federal borelok bullets with 100 grains of BH209 powder (weighed) along with winchester 209 primers. Sighted in this gun and had no problems with ignition and with this load this gun will absolutely shoot lights out but............ the minute a real bear stepped out the primer went off and failed to ignite the main charge. Talk about being let down! Looking back this gun did not have the BH209 breech plug. Without getting into a huge debate I have plenty of BH209 powder and plan on using this powder. But my question now is if you look on their web sight they have a max charge of 85grains by weight, i was unaware of this when shooting the kodiak mag which is able to shoot up to 150grns. Should i back the charge down now using this new Accura? Looking through other forums it seems like everyone is shooting over the 85grns? Thanks in advance.

[megasupermagnum]

BH 209 is kinda sorta similar to blackpwder by volume, but it isn't perfect. Last I checked, 120 gr volume of BH 209 is the recommended maximum load for most inline rifles, but there are exceptions. I'm assuming that is the 85gr weight restriction you are referring to, and yes you should absolutely back down. Do not confuse weight and volume. Your Kodiak is rated to 150 gr of blackpowder. Substitute powders try and mimic that by volume only. BH209 gets close, but is a higher pressure powder than most which is why the restriction.

I have no opinion on either of those rifles. Get a proper breech plug for them. You also need a good sealing bullet, which a borlock really isn't. I would try an 1/8 felt wad under that bullet for a better seal.

[Edward]

What Mega says is what works ,I use a Dura Felt wad to protect the base . The felts I make punched out with a $15.00 hole punch set from Harbor Freight . /Ed

[BK7saum]

Regardless of the strength of your firearm, BHs recommended max charge is 84 grains by weight or 120 grains by volume. Is the additional powder safe in your gun? I do not know. I would back down to the 84 grains by weight if it were me.

It is my understanding that BH209 is more like a smokless powder than BP or another BP substitute. It is more energetic and could create excessive pressure. If I am wrong, someone will correct me I'm sure.

[megasupermagnum]

Regardless of the strength of your firearm, BHs recommended max charge is 84 grains by weight or 120 grains by volume. Is the additional powder safe in your gun? I do not know. I would back down to the 84 grains by weight if it were me.

It is my understanding that BH209 is more like a smokless powder than BP or another BP substitute. It is more energetic and could create excessive pressure. If I am wrong, someone will correct me I'm sure.

That recomdation applies to most, but not all inline rifles. CVA is the most notable example which say you can use different charges, and even differentiate by caliber. The CVA Kodiak is not one, that should be a 120gr volume max of BH209.

[BK7saum]

That is the recommendation made by Blackhorn, not the rifle manufacturers recommendation. I am well aware the Remington and Savage muzzleloaders as well as some customs that can use with smokeless powders or increased amounts of BP substitutes.

[BLAHUT]

Ok guys just picked this gun up after a huge failure 2 years ago in the early PA bear season. I was shooting a CVA kodiak mag and federal borelok bullets with 100 grains of BH209 powder (weighed) along with winchester 209 primers. Sighted in this gun and had no problems with ignition and with this load this gun will absolutely shoot lights out but............ the minute a real bear stepped out the primer went off and failed to ignite the main charge. Talk about being let down! Looking back this gun did not have the BH209 breech plug. Without getting into a huge debate I have plenty of BH209 powder and plan on using this powder. But my question now is if you look on their web sight they have a max charge of 85grains by weight, i was unaware of this when shooting the kodiak mag which is able to shoot up to 150grns. Should i back the charge down now using this new Accura? Looking through other forums it seems like everyone is shooting over the 85grns? Thanks in advance.

When I talked with the boys in the lab at blackhorn209 I was told to use a mag primer... I do not have any fancy breach plug in my CVA wolf mag inline rifle, whatever it came with is what I use, it has always fired in cold weather with mag shotgun primers... I shoot a 360 gr to 500 gr pure lead bullet and keep it at about 1200FPS, very accurate. I weigh every powder charge. This has worked for me since this gun and powder combination came out. Now with BH209 being so expensive I must start a new quest for a powder that works for me, and yes I tried true black, did not find any that I could get, that was consistent, shot to shot.

[Tradbowhunter]

Thanks guys, I think what im going to do is definitely back the charge down to 85 weighed grains of powder and while sighting in the gun set up the chronograph at the same time and see where it ends up and go from there. This gun did come with the BH 209 breech plug so i will be using it too.

[BK7saum]

Also, what primers were you using?

IIRC, Blackhorn 209 recommends full strength 209 primers, not the watered down muzzleloader version of the 209 primer. If you were using the muzzleloader specific primers, that may have been the problem with failure to fire.

[Tradbowhunter]

I was using winchester 209 primers that i use for reloading shotgun also. Like I said I had no issues in the past. I have tried the muzzelloader primers in the past and wasnt very impressed with them so i went to the winchsters that i have lots of

[725]

I'd back it down and see what it does. Often excessive powder loads burn only so much in the barrel and the balance flies out and lands on the ground.

[zdogk-9]

BH209 is roughly 7/10 weight/volume compared to black powder so 84 grains by weight would be aprox. 121 grains by volume, ( the weight to volume ratio varies lot to lot). I'll let you figure out the sweet spot here. I'm guessing your misfire was due to the flash hole being sorta fouled.

[NSB]

I’ll tell you right off what your problem was…..those Federal Borelok bullets you were using. They have the same problem PowerBelts have….they often give you misfires. Here’s a hard fact: there is no standard bore diameter for 50 caliber muzzle loader barrels. You can measure some to prove that. My TC Encore has a ton of ignition problems with those bullets in cold weather, and some problems in warm weather. The bullets will actually migrate off the powder charge if shaken with the muzzle pointing downwards. I’ve owned at least a dozen muzzle loading rifles over the last forty years and I’ve slugged many barrels. I’ve also shot every powder, including black during that time. Regardless of cost, I’ve ended up using BH209 with great results. I can also achieve good results using T7 if I swab with a wet (Windex with ammonia) followed with a dry patch. BH209 has less crud in the barrel and a lot less in the breech plug. Get some sabots and bullets and find what fits in your barrel the best and quit using the “easy stuff” like Boreloks and PowerBelts. I’d suggest getting some Barnes TEZ 250 or 290 weights. I can get honest 1moa groups out of my Encore and my CVA Optima with those bullets and they perform spectacularly on deer and other game. I get NO misfires in either gun…..EVER. FWIW, I don’t use the anemic ML primers and most everyone else figured out that they don’t work very well by now. You’ve got a good gun that just needs a proper fitting sabot to get it shooting well. Good luck. Sorry if I called anyone’s baby ugly with my PowerBelt comments, I’ve tried them several times and it is what it is.

[megasupermagnum]

I’ll tell you right off what your problem was…..those Federal Borelok bullets you were using. They have the same problem PowerBelts have….they often give you misfires. Here’s a hard fact: there is no standard bore diameter for 50 caliber muzzle loader barrels. You can measure some to prove that. My TC Encore has a ton of ignition problems with those bullets in cold weather, and some problems in warm weather. The bullets will actually migrate off the powder charge if shaken with the muzzle pointing downwards. I’ve owned at least a dozen muzzle loading rifles over the last forty years and I’ve slugged many barrels. I’ve also shot every powder, including black during that time. Regardless of cost, I’ve ended up using BH209 with great results. I can also achieve good results using T7 if I swab with a wet (Windex with ammonia) followed with a dry patch. BH209 has less crud in the barrel and a lot less in the breech plug. Get some sabots and bullets and find what fits in your barrel the best and quit using the “easy stuff” like Boreloks and PowerBelts. I’d suggest getting some Barnes TEZ 250 or 290 weights. I can get honest 1moa groups out of my Encore and my CVA Optima with those bullets and they perform spectacularly on deer and other game. I get NO misfires in either gun…..EVER. FWIW, I don’t use the anemic ML primers and most everyone else figured out that they don’t work very well by now. You’ve got a good gun that just needs a proper fitting sabot to get it shooting well. Good luck. Sorry if I called anyone’s baby ugly with my PowerBelt comments, I’ve tried them several times and it is what it is.

I don't think you are going to get too many defenders of Powerbelts. They have so many different options, but so many of them have had issues with accuracy, quality, and outright worthless performance on animals. Everyone loves to hate Powerbelts.

You can definitely get good groups with plastic sabots and bullets, but they have their drawbacks, and they aren't legal everywhere. There are options for easy loading bullets that shoot even more accurately than saboted bullets, mainly full bore conical. As you mention, you have to know your bore size, or at least try a variety of sizes. Still I think the issue comes down to seal with BH209, which a plastic sabot does by its design. The seal problem is easy to remedy though using things like my earlier mentioned felt wads. I'm not a huge fan of Borlock bullets, but they are a hunk of lead in a thin plastic sleeve, they should perform fine on animals. A felt wad for a seal should fix the problem.

I guess I missed the boat on figuring out ML 209 primers don't work very well. Of course they do not work at all with BH209, but they are far better than shotgun 209's with real blackpowder.

[Tradbowhunter]

I don't disagree with you on that every muzzleloader has a different bore diameter but like i said my kodiak mag shoots the federal bore loks better than i can shoot the gun i get a clover leaf at 50yards which is good enough for what im doing, so i have to think that since the accuracy is so good they must fit that particular barrel well. Its not a big struggle to load this gun but it is by no means falling down the barrel either. I have yet to shoot the new one or chronograph either one of them. If the accura will not shoot as good or better with the boreloks I will certainly be looking for a different bullet. I am also planning on sticking with regular shotgun primers that are hotter and i have never had any luck with the power belts either.