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Thread: Perception

  1. #1
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Perception

    At the gun show this weekend, I looked at a rifle built by a deceased well known eastern builder. The way he is talked up on various forums makes it sound like he is the best in the business. Well, after seeing his work, I have a much lower opinion of his talents. Very poor quality workmanship.
    It seems like those in the east have cliques of fans that may know and like the person, ergo, his work must be good. I had made a comment on a famous contemporary maker/part supplier quality problem on a forum, and all hell broke out condemning my opinion. Oh well.
    It reminds me of when Lyman pulled their support for this board. They thought they had signed on with a bunch of fan boys, then found their selves in a den of people who gave honest assessments of their product, and suggestions for improvement. They didn't like that, and wanted the posts to be censored. Not here, boys.

    Rant over.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master
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    "He who dares not offend, cannot be honest." Rant enjoyed.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy freakonaleash's Avatar
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    PM me who the maker was. I have been dealing with these so called legends my entire career. I really head butted a few of them.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master



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    I got screwed royally by one of the so called legends. Made me a lock that broke the main spring on the first hammer cock after I had inletted it into the stock. I sent it back to him along with a check for $25.00 to pay for shipping back to me. I called, wrote and he never repaired the lock or sent it back to me. I finally after about 2 years of trying bought an L&R lock and a new stock blank and started over. I never got my lock back from him. james

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNsailorman View Post
    I got screwed royally by one of the so called legends. Made me a lock that broke the main spring on the first hammer cock after I had inletted it into the stock. I sent it back to him along with a check for $25.00 to pay for shipping back to me. I called, wrote and he never repaired the lock or sent it back to me. I finally after about 2 years of trying bought an L&R lock and a new stock blank and started over. I never got my lock back from him. james
    Since you never heard from him, is it possible the package got lost in the mail? OR, perhaps you had a signed receipt showing the package was delivered? I've had UPS and USPS both to show "delivered" with a tracking number, but it never got to me. Perhaps delivered to a wrong address or something?

    Not saying the guy was not at fault, just asking about different possible reasons.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master



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    I edited out some of the original post that I intended before I posted it and left out some of the info. I let myself get a little steamed and had to take out some of the "rant". I talked to him on the phone twice and mailed a couple of letters to him. He just refused to do anything about the broken spring and kept my money and the complete lock I sent back. He also quit answering my phone calls. This was back in the early 70's. james

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Some are so money hungry they just don't care, booked for years and don't care!!

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Might just be a case of convincing themselves that the hard earned money they gave to a hack was well spent.

    BTW - The last three Lyman items that I bought were returned because of shoddy workmanship too.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

    Men who don't understand women fall into two categories: bachelors and husbands!

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    As always, one man's treasure is another man's trash....
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    The coroner's van is your next ride

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNsailorman View Post
    I edited out some of the original post that I intended before I posted it and left out some of the info. I let myself get a little steamed and had to take out some of the "rant". I talked to him on the phone twice and mailed a couple of letters to him. He just refused to do anything about the broken spring and kept my money and the complete lock I sent back. He also quit answering my phone calls. This was back in the early 70's. james
    Agreed, not a "lost in transit" type of problem. I don't understand how some folks can stay in business that way.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenH View Post
    Agreed, not a "lost in transit" type of problem. I don't understand how some folks can stay in business that way.
    They stay in business because of what happened to the OP. He said something negative and got piled on by "internet experts". Notice that it works. We do not know who the "legend" is.

    I have had work done by "legends" and have been lucky. They were guys within 200 miles and in two cases I visited their shops. You get a lot out of a FTF meeting. Maybe if the "legend" is dealing with "local" customer he does not screw the customer as word travels fast.

    BTW, "legends" are not stupid. If they are going to screw someone it will not be a writer, a competitive shooter, etc, that can destroy their business.
    Don Verna


  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Been involved in several businesses that involved true craftsmen. The problem I saw was that many of those with a true talent lacked some form of business 'sense'.

    Some would do great work for their friends and 'government work' for anyone else. Others would allow themselves to get over booked and the stress caused problems with their work or their business, sometimes both. Some are just not good with people (polite way of saying it). OCD folks really had problems. The good ones would have someone else actually run the business and when it works it is wonderful. When it doesn't it sucks.

    It really is sad when you watch someone go through the pitfalls.

  13. #13
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    They stay in business because of what happened to the OP. He said something negative and got piled on by "internet experts". Notice that it works. We do not know who the "legend" is.

    .
    Didn't want to speak ill of the dead, now that they have no chance to change or improve.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I am sitting here wondering how many guns the legend built in total, two ? One hundred?. Was this the first or the last one. I've built a few over the past 50+ years and I'll admit that the first one wasn't quite as nice as I wish it were. As a matter of fact it's pretty amateurish but, it was the start of a lot of years of learning and hopefully getting better. I never sold any of them, I mostly gave them to family, so the only person I had to please was me. I'm not defending poor workmanship I'm just wondering where the legend was in their career. I have to admit I've critiqued quite a few "custom" rifles built by others and found them wanting but they must have met someone's expectations.

    Just my $0.02 worth.
    BIG OR SMALL I LIKE THEM ALL, 577 TO 22 HORNET.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Well said and the$0.02 was priceless , wished I'd said it but I'm not that forgiving ! Another in a long list of faults/Ed

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check