Lyman 358429 vs. 358429A

[Rickf1985]

Ok, As the title says I am looking for the technical differences between these two molds. I will put up some pics of the molds, the four cavity is the 429 and the two cavity is the 429A. I just cast probably 500 of the 429A but then I had the chance to buy the 4 cavity 429 at a very good price. I can see right off that the A has squared off grease groove and a different crimp groove profile. The 429 has a round grease groove. Now, I remember seeing somewhere that one of Elmer Keith's biggest gripes was the mold makers making molds with " those damn round grooves" and calling them Keith molds.

I have searched everywhere and I cannot find anything at all on that 429A mold!!! And you better believe I had to get real creative to bring out that number on that 429A enough to get a pic of it!!!! That is an old and well used mold that still drops fantastic boolits!

So what do I have here?

[OS OK]

Elmer, I think wanted the maximum amount of lube in his design...thus the squared inside edges of the lube band.
His design was a bugger to dislodge from a mould because of the squared off lube band design.
I think it was Ideal who he was dealing with & they made the modification for ease of casting purposes. It pissed him off.
I think the 'A' must be denoting a revision as in tracking the cherry's of that profile... I don't know about that?

[AlaskaMike]

With regard to the lube groove, I think by the time smokeless powder became commonplace, the only person griping about the rounded lube groove was Elmer. I have no source to point to, but I believe Elmer felt so strongly about the large capacity lube groove because he designed those bullets for use with black powder. Perhaps not specifically for the 358429, but certainly with his .44 and .45 caliber SWC designs.

Also, I believe he felt that there was no such thing as too much bullet lube, but there was certainly a big downside to not enough lube.

That said, my RCBS 44-250-K has a flat bottom lube groove with beveled sides, exactly like the 358429 example photo above, and it drops bullets very easily. I don't believe a flat bottom lube groove by itself will cause a mold to be reluctant to drop bullets.

[Bent Ramrod]

The letter(s) after the Ideal number started (in the 70s or 80s, I believe) when Lyman stopped making their own boolit cherries in-house and started outsourcing them from toolmaking firms. They could leave that part of the mould manufacturing job to specialists, hopefully ensuring a consistent size and shape, and by the letter(s) would know whose cherrie cut the mould if it came back with a complaint or for repair.

Strictly speaking, there should be no difference in cavity shape for a given numerical designation. But some of the moulds made in the 50s and 60s, when the scions of the Lyman family wanted to get out of the business, drifted noticeably from the catalog illustrations, and nose and shank dimensions were sometimes “there or thereabouts.” There’s a picture somewhere of a half-dozen 429421 boolits from different Ideal- and Lyman-marked moulds, with no two exactly alike.

[fecmech]

Your 429A mold is a newer mold, I bought the other one new around 1970. The square lube grooves came later also the different nose profile.

[Larry Gibson]

Keith's grip with the Lyman about the rounded grooves is a moot point with todays modern lubes. Actually, for the last 50 years + the round grooves of the 358429 and the 429421 hold more than enough of any modern lube [NRA 50/50, BAC, 2500+ etc.] for use in long barreled rifles let alone any handgun length barrel.