.45 auto - "CB bear loads"?

[GregLaROCHE]

45ACP ain’t the cartridge for bear!
Nowhere near the penetration needed to get into the vitals !
I read about a Grizzly bear that was taken out by the park rangers and when they skinned it they found every imaginable handgun bullet and quite a few rifle bullets in him.
A friend did research and found that the bullets need to go through about 12” of hair, hide fat and muscle before being able to damage a vital organ.

You’re right about that!

[OS OK]

A Bear fight with a 45ACP in the 1911 is just like an Indian fight with the old Colt SAA 45 Colt...the wise always said..."Save the last cartridge for yourself!"

[charlie b]

Except....several of the large bears have been killed with marginal guns. Not one round stops, but, the bears ended up dead on the spot. The most notable was the guide who shot one at close range with his subcompact 9mm. IIRC 7 rounds and most penetrated to the lungs and heart.

OTOH, an old story was from a famous gun writer who was making the claim that a .30-06 wasn't enough to hunt grizzlies. The bear took 6 shots and was still walking around. The .300H&H was deemed superior since it finally killed the bear, but, it took 4 more shots.

Me? I don't go out in grizzly country.

[dla]

I reload the 45acp and I won't carry it in bear country because I have other cartridges better suited. Apart from the common semi wadcutter, the 45acp chamber won't handle a penetrating bullet profile.
IMHO of course.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,
Can you give us the velocity on that load? I assume you’re using it in a Government model rather than Commander.
Thanks

That +P load [7.5 gr Unique under the 230 TC bullet] runs 960 fps out of my Series 70 M1911. I have killed 2 BBs with the 45 ACP, one with a Combat Commander and the other with the M1911.

[Gray Fox]

Larry:

Can an S&W 25-6 or later revolver handle that +P load safely? I've got 500 of the ACME Bullet Co. HiTek coated 230 TC boolets. I'm much more into revolvers these days than my 1911s. I lucked into 4# of Unique recently. GF

[RJM52]

Talked to one of the Techs at Buffalo Bore...they have a whole following that use their .45 Super loads in late model S&W revolvers, including the Tech I spoke with... So +P should not be a problem...

I used +P loads in a 70s vintage 25-2 for 20 years with no issues. Have also used them in a Mountain Gun and 625-7 PC 5"...

[35 Whelen]

255gr swc 8.5 gr Bluedot 1.210" OAL. It's a listed load, but I can't recall where. That should be a standard pressure load.

I found this very load in an annual publication called 45 Auto, of which there were two published back in the early '80's. I tried this load 30+ years ago with a generic commercial 255 gr. SWC in my '76 production Colt Series 70 Gov't Model and it averaged almost exactly 950 fps on the nose from the Colt's 5" barrel. Recoil was quite exciting and much to my surprise it was quite accurate as I was able to put a full magazine into a 7" group at 100 yds., off a bench, of course. I tried the same load again just a few years ago with newer Blue Dot and a home-cast SWC from a Lyman 454424 mold and it ran closer to 925 fps, don't recall how it grouped without looking in my load log (that's in the shop...I'm in the house...in my skivvies).

I’m a .45acp lover but grizzlies? Give me a hot 10mm,,,,,better yet, take a 10mm auto and turn it into a 11.5x25mm acp. Chopped BR brass should do nicely.

I frequently read statements such as yours regarding the 10mm on internet forums. May I throw in a little perspective?

I own a 137 year old '73 Winchester chambered in 38 WCF, it's uses exactly the same diameter bullet as the 10mm. Loaded with a 192 gr. FP bullet (RCBS 40-180-FN) over a case full of Swiss 3Fg black powder (Or ~ 9.0 gr. of Unique), said bullet averages 1410 fps, significantly more powerful than a 10mm from a handgun. Yet if I were to tell someone I was going to carry this rifle for grizzly bear defense, they'd probably give me a ride to the funny farm.

35W

[pmer]

I had this out with myself last summer and concluded that I'm better off hitting with my +P .40 Smith & Wesson than missing with a .44 double action. In fact it's almost like a laser in comparison.

[ddixie884]

I found this very load in an annual publication called 45 Auto, of which there were two published back in the early '80's. I tried this load 30+ years ago with a generic commercial 255 gr. SWC in my '76 production Colt Series 70 Gov't Model and it averaged almost exactly 950 fps on the nose from the Colt's 5" barrel. Recoil was quite exciting and much to my surprise it was quite accurate as I was able to put a full magazine into a 7" group at 100 yds., off a bench, of course. I tried the same load again just a few years ago with newer Blue Dot and a home-cast SWC from a Lyman 454424 mold and it ran closer to 925 fps, don't recall how it grouped without looking in my load log (that's in the shop...I'm in the house...in my skivvies).



I frequently read statements such as yours regarding the 10mm on internet forums. May I throw in a little perspective?

I own a 137 year old '73 Winchester chambered in 38 WCF, it's uses exactly the same diameter bullet as the 10mm. Loaded with a 192 gr. FP bullet (RCBS 40-180-FN) over a case full of Swiss 3Fg black powder (Or ~ 9.0 gr. of Unique), said bullet averages 1410 fps, significantly more powerful than a 10mm from a handgun. Yet if I were to tell someone I was going to carry this rifle for grizzly bear defense, they'd probably give me a ride to the funny farm.

35W

Thats what I'm talkin-bout..................

[megasupermagnum]

I found this very load in an annual publication called 45 Auto, of which there were two published back in the early '80's. I tried this load 30+ years ago with a generic commercial 255 gr. SWC in my '76 production Colt Series 70 Gov't Model and it averaged almost exactly 950 fps on the nose from the Colt's 5" barrel. Recoil was quite exciting and much to my surprise it was quite accurate as I was able to put a full magazine into a 7" group at 100 yds., off a bench, of course. I tried the same load again just a few years ago with newer Blue Dot and a home-cast SWC from a Lyman 454424 mold and it ran closer to 925 fps, don't recall how it grouped without looking in my load log (that's in the shop...I'm in the house...in my skivvies).



I frequently read statements such as yours regarding the 10mm on internet forums. May I throw in a little perspective?

I own a 137 year old '73 Winchester chambered in 38 WCF, it's uses exactly the same diameter bullet as the 10mm. Loaded with a 192 gr. FP bullet (RCBS 40-180-FN) over a case full of Swiss 3Fg black powder (Or ~ 9.0 gr. of Unique), said bullet averages 1410 fps, significantly more powerful than a 10mm from a handgun. Yet if I were to tell someone I was going to carry this rifle for grizzly bear defense, they'd probably give me a ride to the funny farm.

35W

I think that load was right around 850-875 fps in my slightly shorter barrel of 4". I like like 10mm auto myself just fine, but people need to get real on what they have. A 10mm auto is pretty much 1:1 a 357 magnum, nothing more, nothing less. Yeah, a 200 gr bullet at 1200 fps from a semi auto is cool, definitely effective. If you gave a 45 acp a 5 1/2" or 6" barrel like most 10mm's, it could definitely send a 200gr bullet close to 1100 fps. My 4" barrel with Aliant's book load of 10.5 gr Bluedot is pretty much right on 1000 fps. That's just standard pressure stuff, not even going to +p.

Again, nothing against 10mm auto, but it doesn't get you THAT much more than a 45 acp, plus you have to deal with all the things that come with 10mm auto such as guns being pretty much all steel framed and heavy. The 1911's, Glock 20, Sig P220 (10mm), EAA Witness, they are all at or over 40 ounces. There's a number of light, but full size options in 45 acp out there that you just can't get in 10mm auto. My plain old Sig P220 in 45 acp has an aluminum frame gets it right down to 30 ounces.

Is the extra 100-150 fps REALLY worth that much? I won't judge. I love 10mm.

[Abert Rim]

This thread has me trying to recall loads for the .45 ACP using the Lee 452-255 RF. Think I used Unique or Universal, but also have Blue Dot on hand. From my range scrap alloy, the Lee boolit runs about 260 grains.