Old eye candy

[Rockingkj]

Just got this old ML. Only mark is lock marked “Partridge Warrented”. Very heavy barrel. Nice bore. Was able to get the old nipple out when I get a replacement should be ready to roar again. A bit odd with two cheek pieces. Appears to be .36 cal

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Nice find. Hope it shoots well and gives you many years of enjoyment.

DG

[megasupermagnum]

I'd love to hear from someone who might be familiar with this style rifle. My gut tells me it might not be as old as you think. I look at that and I see a purpose built offhand target rifle. I'd like to see a closer shot of that rear sight. Odd that such a rifle was obviously shot and put away dirty at least once. Makes you wonder what happened to the owner or builder.

[john.k]

Actually pretty common.....original owner passes ,rifle is fired once or twice by the curious grandchildren to 'see if it works',taken to the pawn shop to get a few bucks.

[Rockingkj]

Some additional pics. Pretty rough in parts of the exterior. Could be wrong but still thinking got a fair bit of age.

[schutzen-jager]

nice find + from the pictures it is definitely a vintage item -

[Rockingkj]

The auction had it tagged as 1850’s but every old ML was made then for selling purposes. The lock would not stay cocked which help keep the price down. Fortunately the inards were just gunked up. Cleaning and oil back to functional. Glad to get the nipple out. There was a piece of wool looking material under it. The gun would never have ignited with that there. It’s a wonder it was not loaded.

[HWooldridge]

Hexagonal bore?

[pietro]

.

Hex (6 groove) rifling = Whitworth rifling; 5 groove rifling = 5-square rifling (used by some 19ty Century gun builders)

It's an older gun.


From Ned Roberts:






IMO, the extra hole in the forward section of the lock plate indicates that it's a flintlock that has been converted to percussion sometime after percussion caps first came into general use ca.1850

.

[Jackrabbit1957]

Disagree about it being a converted flinter, that lock was always a caplock, that hole is most likely from being mounted on another rifle. The lock really resembles a Goulcher lock that were very common in that era.

[Rockingkj]

All this is why I find old guns interesting. Originally I thought it to be .38 and a .375 ball will roll about 3” into the muzzle and stop. .350 rolls all the way down. I have an inspection scope and will take a closer look at that tonight. I had the scope in it but was mainly looking at the breach area and the rifling as I slid it out. (Best $75 I ever spent at Harbor Freight). It’s an eye opener when you think you had done a good job cleaning your rifle and seeing what looks like a clogged artery at the bottom.

[megasupermagnum]

All this is why I find old guns interesting. Originally I thought it to be .38 and a .375 ball will roll about 3” into the muzzle and stop. .350 rolls all the way down. I have an inspection scope and will take a closer look at that tonight. I had the scope in it but was mainly looking at the breach area and the rifling as I slid it out. (Best $75 I ever spent at Harbor Freight). It’s an eye opener when you think you had done a good job cleaning your rifle and seeing what looks like a clogged artery at the bottom.

If it is original, a lot of people argue whether it is on purpose or not. It is called a coned muzzle. It's generally in reference to loading patched round ball, and I don't think hex rifling was ever intended for patched ball.

If it is a mid 1800s gun, which it appears it very well could be, the barrel should have a proof mark on the bottom.

[Rockingkj]

I had it all apart and found no other marks beyond the lock. If it were not for the way the muzzle looks the bore when viewed with a bore light in the bottom looks like a normal bore

[beemer]

Is the extra hole in the tang maybe threaded for a tang sight ? Interesting, please keep us informed it you will.

[megasupermagnum]

I had it all apart and found no other marks beyond the lock. If it were not for the way the muzzle looks the bore when viewed with a bore light in the bottom looks like a normal bore

It very well could be a purpose made coned muzzle then. I know the original method was by hand using files. Generally they were done in a more decorative fashion, which could explain why they went with a hex shape. The idea was you could start your ball and patch by hand, and ram it down easier.

I have so little knowledge of original guns, I hope someone can help out. It is my understanding that in the mid 1800's the USA had almost no barrel makers. Most were from Europe, mostly England or Belgium, and I'm sure plenty from Germany. There should be proof marks on the barrel somewhere if it was from Europe. I'm only going off gut feelings here, but the style of the rifle to me looks either American or English. The way the tang is shaped and engraved, the shape of the lock and hammer, the trigger guard, those look are parts that would look at home on an English shotgun from the mid 1800s.

[Rockingkj]

Appears to be American Walnut stock. There was a lot of craftsman /gunsmith’s made guns and using ready made locks. The venerated J.S. Hawken rifles used a lot of Parts Hawken did not actually make. But they made a style of rifle copied by many. Some makers marked their guns but a lot did not. Sort of like custom knives we like the maker to have marked them but some fine craftsman did/do not.

[Rockingkj]

Here is a few more. Hey guys I have shown you mine feel free to share your sweet heart. I like older gals. Lol.

[megasupermagnum]

Appears to be American Walnut stock. There was a lot of craftsman /gunsmith’s made guns and using ready made locks. The venerated J.S. Hawken rifles used a lot of Parts Hawken did not actually make. But they made a style of rifle copied by many. Some makers marked their guns but a lot did not. Sort of like custom knives we like the maker to have marked them but some fine craftsman did/do not.

Right, but the barrels would still have a proof mark if from Europe. That proof mark can date the barrel, and should thus date the rifle.

[Rockingkj]

That would definitely be a great way to date it. I had hoped there was a maker mark or something on the underside of the barrel but alas no marks. So likely to forever be a mystery.

[pietro]

Right, but the barrels would still have a proof mark if from Europe. That proof mark can date the barrel, and should thus date the rifle.

Pre-1850 European firearms oftentimes do not exhibit any commercial proof marks, with the exception of an occasional barrel address.

AFAIK, the British was one of, if not the first, European countries to mandate proof marks ( ca. 1868 )