357 mag hunting loads

[wolfdog]

So I'm working on a hunting load for the Ruger GP100. My gun hates and has always hated any load over 1400fps. So pushing for max power isn't an option. Not to worry, cast at 1200-1400fps has always been effective.
My two bullets to work with are the Lee 358-158, both a SWC w/GC and a RNFP Plain Base.
My powders are lil gun, W572 and HS6.

Unsized bullets from the PB mold will not fit in my chambers, they cast at .359 and are a tight fit, and with PC they go to 369 and simply will not chamber. I have never tried the GC version PCed. Not sure how I would even begin.

I've had luck with both bullets tumble lubed w/GC or PCed or TLed PB, using 8-9grns of HS6 for about 1250-1300fps. Gives me 3-4" groups at 35 yards.
Similar sized groups from same bullets with 6.5-7grns of W572.
Nothing I shoot with lilgun from 16-18grns wants to group, I suspect it's all breaking that 1400fps barrier my gun has.

I have killed a couple deer using the 148grn button nose WC TL over 8grns of HS6 for about 1200fps.

Should I keep trying to push for more power, or should I settle in on one of the loads getting 3-4" at 35 yards and just be done with it?

If the latter, I would probably go with the 158PB as I can save on gas checks and I'm not noticing any accuracy difference. Input welcome.
Also...My new grips came in from Altamont Grips and they are fantastic. Compact snake skin rubber with snake skin inserts!

[Silvercreek Farmer]

How well did the wadcutter perform?

[wolfdog]

How well did the wadcutter perform?

70 yards, hit onside between ribs, passed through both lungs, broke the off side shoulder and lodged under the skin. I got some deformation, however it did fracture on bone. I got a lot of damage to that off side shoulder and am not sure had I hit onside shoulder it would have been as effective.

[wolfdog]

I may have to revisit this load now that I'm I've learned to use a softer alloy.

[Larry Gibson]

I'll tell you what I've found to be the best 357 Magnum hunting (2 or 4 legged critters) load having over 50 years experience developing and using different loads with cast and jacketed bullets in revolvers and rifles. I use the 358156 cast of 16-1 (for 6" + barrels, 20-1 with shorter barrels) sized at .357, GC'd with Hornady GCs, lubed with 50/50, BAC or 2500+ and loaded over 14 gr of 2400 (either flavor) in magnum cases with a WSP or CCI 550 primer. After loading the bullets are HP'd with the 1/8" Forter HP tool to 3/16" deep. If smaller vermin are the intended target then the HP is further opend with a countersink. Velocity runs 1335 fps out of my 6" barreled Ruger Security Six. The psi runs, as measured in a Contender taest barre, at 34,200 for a 10 shot test.

[wolfdog]

I'll tell you what I've found to be the best 357 Magnum hunting (2 or 4 legged critters) load having over 50 years experience developing and using different loads with cast and jacketed bullets in revolvers and rifles. I use the 358156 cast of 16-1 (for 6" + barrels, 20-1 with shorter barrels) sized at .357, GC'd with Hornady GCs, lubed with 50/50, BAC or 2500+ and loaded over 14 gr of 2400 (either flavor) in magnum cases with a WSP or CCI 550 primer. After loading the bullets are HP'd with the 1/8" Forter HP tool to 3/16" deep. If smaller vermin are the intended target then the HP is further opend with a countersink. Velocity runs 1335 fps out of my 6" barreled Ruger Security Six. The psi runs, as measured in a Contender taest barre, at 34,200 for a 10 shot test.

I was curious if people thought a GC was needed at 1300ish fps. I'm trying to see if I can get away with not using one. I've had a bit of success with the 358-150GC lee SWC tumbled in LLA/mineral spirits. Doing about 1600fps from a rifle. I don't HP them, and I'm pushing them with a moderate charge of IMR4227 and a magnum pistol primer. For some reason, that load WILL NOT group in this revolver. I get leading and can't keep 3 shots on paper at 30 yards. Out of two rifles, both open sights that same load is sub 3" at 100 yards and has accounted for a 3x3 WT at 70 and a 4x4 mulie at a bit over 100. And several pigs in TX. No idea why my handgun hates it so much.

[triggerhappy243]

leading concerns only matters after the 2nd shot from a clean barrel. When shooting my muzzleloaders with lead conicals, (435 gr. T/C maxi-balls) it is the 1st shot that matters when hunting to me.

[Willie T]

If you have not tried H-110-W-296, it might be worth your time to do a load work up. For full house .357, H-110 gives top accuracy in my revolvers. That gas checked SWC cast with Lyman No2 conventional lubed with carnuba red over H-110 is my go to hunting load in a 4” S&W 686 sized to .357 and a 4 5/8” Blackhawk sized to .359. Good penetration. Expands and holds together on bone. Shoots tight. Makes magnum velocities. Depending on brass head stamp, somewhere around 15.3-15.5 grains I get case fill with no air space with a bullet seated and is where velocity gets really consistent and it shoots the tightest in my pistols with a gas checked158 SWC.
Willie

[Mauser48]

I've been shooting the lee 358 158 rnfp in my gp100 with 10.5gr of blue dot. I size to .358 and powder coat, no gas check. I'm not much of a shot with handguns but it seems to shoot accurate and I get no leading. I've never taken game with it but I'm sure it would do a good job.

[megasupermagnum]

I'll tell you what I've found to be the best 357 Magnum hunting (2 or 4 legged critters) load having over 50 years experience developing and using different loads with cast and jacketed bullets in revolvers and rifles. I use the 358156 cast of 16-1 (for 6" + barrels, 20-1 with shorter barrels) sized at .357, GC'd with Hornady GCs, lubed with 50/50, BAC or 2500+ and loaded over 14 gr of 2400 (either flavor) in magnum cases with a WSP or CCI 550 primer. After loading the bullets are HP'd with the 1/8" Forter HP tool to 3/16" deep. If smaller vermin are the intended target then the HP is further opend with a countersink. Velocity runs 1335 fps out of my 6" barreled Ruger Security Six. The psi runs, as measured in a Contender taest barre, at 34,200 for a 10 shot test.

That's basically my recipe for success, with my own personal tweaks. My load is Bluedot, but it's pretty much the same thing.

[megasupermagnum]

I was curious if people thought a GC was needed at 1300ish fps. I'm trying to see if I can get away with not using one. I've had a bit of success with the 358-150GC lee SWC tumbled in LLA/mineral spirits. Doing about 1600fps from a rifle. I don't HP them, and I'm pushing them with a moderate charge of IMR4227 and a magnum pistol primer. For some reason, that load WILL NOT group in this revolver. I get leading and can't keep 3 shots on paper at 30 yards. Out of two rifles, both open sights that same load is sub 3" at 100 yards and has accounted for a 3x3 WT at 70 and a 4x4 mulie at a bit over 100. And several pigs in TX. No idea why my handgun hates it so much.

It's hard to say. Sometimes a revolver hates a bullet a rifle loves and I often find the opposite true.

My opinion on gas checks is to let the load decide. If you have a bullet with a gas check shank there is hardly any reason not to use a gas check. You are not helping yourself by not using one on a shank. As a general rule, 1400 fps is often where I see things go sour plain base. I believe pressure and bullet design are factors.

[wolfdog]

It's hard to say. Sometimes a revolver hates a bullet a rifle loves and I often find the opposite true.

My opinion on gas checks is to let the load decide. If you have a bullet with a gas check shank there is hardly any reason not to use a gas check. You are not helping yourself by not using one on a shank. As a general rule, 1400 fps is often where I see things go sour plain base. I believe pressure and bullet design are factors.

I have two molds, one PB one GC, I'm not shooting a GC design without one. Even with GC, 1400 seems to be a sweet spot with 158s and this gun.

[wolfdog]

leading concerns only matters after the 2nd shot from a clean barrel. When shooting my muzzleloaders with lead conicals, (435 gr. T/C maxi-balls) it is the 1st shot that matters when hunting to me.

If I have a few loads that don't lead, I rarely go to one that does, never on purpose.

[wolfdog]

If you have not tried H-110-W-296, it might be worth your time to do a load work up. For full house .357, H-110 gives top accuracy in my revolvers. That gas checked SWC cast with Lyman No2 conventional lubed with carnuba red over H-110 is my go to hunting load in a 4” S&W 686 sized to .357 and a 4 5/8” Blackhawk sized to .359. Good penetration. Expands and holds together on bone. Shoots tight. Makes magnum velocities. Depending on brass head stamp, somewhere around 15.3-15.5 grains I get case fill with no air space with a bullet seated and is where velocity gets really consistent and it shoots the tightest in my pistols with a gas checked158 SWC.
Willie

Just not finding any around here or 2400.

[hades]

Just out of curiosity, are you sizing your bullets?
You mention that the RNFP bullet casts at 0.359 and is a tight fit.


Maybe some of the loads would tighten up and others would shoot better if they all started the exact same size?


I wouldn't worry about getting extreme velocity out of any load if you have one that shoots nice and is 1200ish already. For moderate ranges that's plenty imo.

[wolfdog]

Just out of curiosity, are you sizing your bullets?
You mention that the RNFP bullet casts at 0.359 and is a tight fit.


Maybe some of the loads would tighten up and others would shoot better if they all started the exact same size?


I wouldn't worry about getting extreme velocity out of any load if you have one that shoots nice and is 1200ish already. For moderate ranges that's plenty imo.

Maybe, but how do you know what size that is without trying a few out? I have a .358 sizer/GC seater so anything that's got a GC is .358, my As Cast PB is .359, and around .360 once PCed. Obviously I'm not loading these randomly into the gun and trying to shoot a group, I'm trying a few different sizes out. I know .360 is too large, won't chamber in the cylinder smoothly. So I'm working on .359 and .359 for the most part. I'm not worried about extreme velocity all that much. Anything 1200-1400fps is probably not staying in a deer at any reasonable range.

[Larry Gibson]

I was curious if people thought a GC was needed at 1300ish fps...........

No, a GC is not needed with the 357 Magnum for general shooting and even with hunting loads. I shoot a lot of Lyman 358477s and the Lee counterpart with magnum loads of Unique and Blue Dot for general shooting, practice and would even shoot game with them.

However, with magnum level loads in a revolver a harder alloy is needed to maintain best accuracy. With the use of the GC the softer alloy for controlled expansion best accuracy is maintained. For hunting specifically is where the 358156 has served me very well with the softer cast bullets over many years. A box of 1k Hornady GCs may seem expensive but when used for hunting loads only they last a long time. When considering the other cost involved in hunting bigger game (deer, pigs etc.) the cost of the GC is minimal.

You have the GC mould so why not use it?

[dverna]

NSB has done a lot of deer hunting with the .357. If he does not post on this thread, you may want to PM him. The bullet Larry referenced is a good one based on what I have read over the years.

[tja6435]

Have you measured the throats? I have a Freedom Arms 83 in .357 that would shoot 4 into a tight group but always had one flyer. I sent the cylinder to Dougguy and he corrected all of the throats to the same size, now it’ll shoot all 5 into a tight group.

[725]

I've re-cut the barrel forcing cone in a magnum which ultimately did improve a mild leading issue. All I can says, it helped. Leading I've observed mainly comes from soft lead, improper sizing relationship to the barrel, too little lube, or more speed than really needed. YMMV. Good luck.