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Thread: What is the barrel treat(Hopkis Allen spur trigger revolver No.5,38CF) prod.year 1882

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Due to the lack of metal thickness for a standard thread,revolver barrels generally use a very fine pitch thread.......and it will for sure be a non standard diameter to suit the dimensions of the barrel and frame.Old revolvers were made of soft steel ,and surface carburized....aka case hardened ...for wear resistance ....However ,I think it unlikely the barrel is case hardened,and is likely a soft steel.

  2. #22
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    Wonder if it’s a v, or acme looking , buttress, gas seal or square; just plain ‘ol machine what ever pitch the lathe cuts screw thread.
    Or even one of them special reformed cross threaded modified types.

    Picture would be work a thousand words here I think.
    Nothin in my thick ‘old "machinist handbook" to go on.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mira View Post
    Hi,

    to try to find which thread is used in a swiss files???

    Dont understand, what did you mean?

    Cheers Mira
    Swiss file are thought to be the best. They come in all sizes including Jeweler’s type. Ones actually made in Switzerland are getting hard to find today. You may not need to go all out for top shelf files, but be warned, there’s a lot of crap for sale too.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Almost certain to be a 'sharp V thread,which was the US standard before unified became a thing.........a shallow square thread is also a possibility ,but doubtful IMHO.....There is no reason a cheap revolver would have anything fancy.........anyhoo,swiss files of quality aint cheap,and it would likely be more economic to buy a complete functional H&A revolver.

  5. #25
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    A simple 60% needle file is all that should be needed. Even the cheapest Amazon needle file sets will be more than sufficient. They are under $10 on Amazon.

    https://www.amazon.com/s?k=60+degree..._ts-doa-p_5_14

    For serious stuff I prefer Gesswein but I do have some cheap Chinese needle file sets for general use. They hold up surprisingly well.

    https://www.gesswein.com/bench-tools.../needle-files/

    These are my favorite https://www.gesswein.com/abrasives/d...dle-files-set/
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-21-2023 at 05:50 AM.
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  6. #26
    Boolit Bub
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    its a special pipe thread, Stahlpanzerrohrgewinde - german

  7. #27
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    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    OK, now we're getting somewhere. Even Wikipedia knows what they are.

    For non-German-speakers' reference, it's an obsolete German DIN thread standard for electrical conduit.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzergewinde
    https://www.gewinde-normen.de/pg-gewinde.html

    Now comes the fun part: Who modified the gun to these threads? Because it's 99.999% certain that DIN standards didn't even exist when that gun was made, and even if they did Hopkins and Allen would never have used them.

    Over 10 years ago I needed some non-standard taps and dies. A company in New York was able to obtain them for me. A factory in Poland made them. I'll try to remember the names of the suppliers.
    Cognitive Dissident

  9. #29
    Boolit Bub
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    what I have measured the thread at the begining (side from drum) it has diam 12,45mm on the end of thread is 12,75mm, so really really nice conical thread...never seen such scrap

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    So .its approx 1/2"OD ,with a 3/8" bore (38) ....which means the wall is 1/16" thick......kinda thin.........so I can see it getting out of round with rough treatment.

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub
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    and also very strange bore...its 38 centre fire, but after measuring I found its diam 9,45mm, friends 38 Special rev. has 9,22mm, (also bullets for 38SW has max.diam 9,25mm), so dont understand what is the strange caliber....
    Outside is the barrel octagonal 8x15mm and 8x14mm, cylinder has material thick only 1,1mm(measured at end of cylinder from chamber to outside surface of cylinder), so good for blank cartridges.
    If you take an old (not clear material but also sometimes oxigenated by corrosion), not possible to fire common 38sw, I love my hands...really .

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I think that chamber and barrel were for the long-obsolete original version of the "thirty-eight", which used a bullet having the same diameter as the brass, with a short part of reduced diameter to fit inside the case. Like a modern .22 Long Rifle. We have an expert on these old cartridges here; I'll try to get him interested.

    Nominal bullet diameter would have been .375 inches. I think. 3/8 of an inch. They thought that way.
    Last edited by uscra112; 03-21-2023 at 07:24 PM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  13. #33
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    Those types are called heeled boolits and are used on more than just 22s..

  14. #34
    Boolit Master

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    I agree with uscra112 - it takes a .375" diameter heel type bullet.

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    Those types are called heeled boolits and are used on more than just 22s..
    Trying not to use English vernacular. He may not know the term.
    Cognitive Dissident

  16. #36
    Boolit Bub
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    Hi Guys, here in German what does mean armor thread:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzergewinde

  17. #37
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    jmho - i have never at any time seen that type of thread used on any firearm barrel either domestic or foreign - does not seem very logical to have thinnest part at end of forcing cone where stress from firing on the barrel is the greatest -
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  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    In fact ,both Mauser /Loewe and OEWG Steyr used inch based threads and pitches up to the 1930s.........Id also think Belgian guns were inch based ,as a great deal of their production went to English merchants to be sent through the empire.......I know for sure the FN motorbikes and cars were inch based threads,but not standard threads.

  19. #39
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    The Mauser 98 barrel shank threads are the 55 degree British Whitworth with an English pitch and Diameter.


    https://engineering.stackexchange.co...s-angled-at-55
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  20. #40

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check