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Thread: RCBS FL sizing die - cams over, with case in, won't raise completely

  1. #1
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    RCBS FL sizing die - cams over, with case in, won't raise completely

    This is really dumb and I'm sure I'm having a senior moment. Setting up RCBS FL dies for 30-06, this time just to get a baseline before measuring headspace taking once fired brass and bumping shoulder. Just FL sizing per RCBS instructions.

    Shellholder 3, raise ram, just kiss, back off ram, turn in 1/8-1/4, lower ram, cams over. I deprime with a Lee Universal deprimer so the RCBS depriming stem depth is not important, though it's roughly 3/16" or so.

    Place a lubed deprimed case into the holder, raise ram....and case gets stopped solid with about 1/2" about between the shellholder/ram and press. Case is not fully sized. For the life of me I can't figure out what's going on.
    -Paul

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    Just possible that it's the wrong die for some other cartridge.

    DG

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    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    Just possible that it's the wrong die for some other cartridge.

    DG
    That's what I wondered but at least the die is stamped properly - FL 30-06 Springfield, 22. I even removed the expander plug/stem completely, and the case goes no further. Stuck about the same place. Am I missing something, or is it possible they simply mis-stamped the die and it's the wrong cartridge?
    -Paul

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    If the depriming stem and expander ball is backed into the die enough that it's in the neck area that will bind it up.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    If the depriming stem and expander ball is backed into the die enough that it's in the neck area that will bind it up.
    OK, thanks, that's interesting.

    The stem and expander ball are as I normally do (I think, now I'm wondering?) - depriming stem exposed about 3/16", and as I say it cams over fine.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    But this is as high as I can raise the case.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    edit: sorry about the rotated photos.
    -Paul

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    Boolit Man hades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlever View Post
    That's what I wondered but at least the die is stamped properly - FL 30-06 Springfield, 22. I even removed the expander plug/stem completely, and the case goes no further. Stuck about the same place. Am I missing something, or is it possible they simply mis-stamped the die and it's the wrong cartridge?
    I helped a new reloader trouble shoot an issue he was having with a brand new RCBS 9mm carbide die set scraping the hell out of the sides of his 9mm cases. To make a short story long, it was a 380 size die, or at least a 380 carbide ring. 380 doesn't taper like the 9mm does and it was working his 9mm over pretty bad after about half way down the case. He happened to have a 380 and one quick press stroke later confirmed that it just wasn't a 9mm size die.


    I'm assuming this isn't your first rodeo and you are aware that there's a fair amount of pressure involved, depending on the press and the brass, to size after the neck hits that part of the die and sets the shoulder back.

    I don't know if a guy could really tell just by looking up in there? But it being mislabeled is definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

    Not sure how 308 compares with 30 06 with neck angles and diameters, but if it is a mis stamp that would be my first cartridge I'd be looking at to see if it was a 308 win instead.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hades View Post
    I helped a new reloader trouble shoot an issue he was having with a brand new RCBS 9mm carbide die set scraping the hell out of the sides of his 9mm cases. To make a short story long, it was a 380 size die, or at least a 380 carbide ring. 380 doesn't taper like the 9mm does and it was working his 9mm over pretty bad after about half way down the case. He happened to have a 380 and one quick press stroke later confirmed that it just wasn't a 9mm size die.


    I'm assuming this isn't your first rodeo and you are aware that there's a fair amount of pressure involved, depending on the press and the brass, to size after the neck hits that part of the die and sets the shoulder back.

    I don't know if a guy could really tell just by looking up in there? But it being mislabeled is definitely not out of the realm of possibilities.

    Not sure how 308 compares with 30 06 and neck angles and diameters, but if it is a mis stamp that would be my first caliber I'd be looking at to see if it was a 308 win instead.
    Thanks. Yeah, I can feel the expander move through the neck as per normal, but then the case stops dead cold. I did press a bit on one and the neck by the mouth was ringed pretty well, pressed in. Almost like it's trying to crimp, even though this is the sizing die?
    -Paul

  8. #8
    Boolit Man hades's Avatar
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    you could try and take some measurements and find where that neck angle starts with a piece of wire and compare to the 30 06. I'm guessing it's just for the 308 or something significantly shorter and you're just running out of die and about to crush the case. Probably that 'crimp' feel you're getting.

    Pressing more is just shoving the mouth up through the pilot holt/expander threads if it is for a shorter 30 cal case.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hades View Post
    you could try and take some measurements and find where that neck angle starts with a piece of wire and compare to the 30 06. I'm guessing it's just for the 308 or something significantly shorter and you're just running out of die and about to crush the case. Probably that 'crimp' feel you're getting.

    Pressing more is just shoving the mouth up through the pilot holt/expander threads if it is for a shorter 30 cal case.
    I think that's exactly what it's doing - I think the shoulder is cramming into the plug well before the case is fully sized. Like I'm trying to bump the shoulder back by a good 1/2" or something?
    -Paul

  10. #10
    Boolit Man hades's Avatar
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    Yep that's my guess. I don't have any shorter 30 cal dies except the big rushkie and the little rushkie.


    I do have a new within the last year 30 06 rcbs die though.

    With the decapping assembly removed the entire die is almost exactly 3 1/8 long. (I'm not sure how many die body sizes there are..)


    Going from the top side down I've got about 5/8" of threads and including a small unthreading space before it gets to a 'step'
    Last edited by hades; 03-13-2023 at 11:29 PM. Reason: their for there...

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    Boolit Man hades's Avatar
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    Going the other way from the bottom of the die back up to the second angle where the neck and mouth meet is a hair under 2" best I can measure with a red spray straw. Hopefully this helps and you can determine if it's much off those numbers it's not the 30 06 die its supposed to be.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    OK, thanks for the help. I think it must be a mis-stamped die. The case is way too long and the die hits the shoulder with this much sticking out.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    -Paul

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    Boolit Master

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    Sounds like it is time to contact RCBS at 800-533-5000 (last I checked) and ask for their assistance.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Try RCBS 2 lube. Apply from a pad. The fl die does not need to be turned down the extra 1/8-1/4. It's to much.

    A Rock Chucker press will turn a 30-06 case into a 243 win, with a Very long neck. Expander removed.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    You nailed it! I can't believe it - I'd wondered if it was just friction binding and so slathered the case inside and out with Imperial wax - it's all I use - but when it made no difference I thought that confirmed it was the wrong size. Using the RCBS lube did it.

    Boy do I feel like an idiot. Thank you!

    ps: I'm picking up the Hornady OAL gauge today, along with comparator and insert, and modified 30-06 case. I'll set the shoulder back from one of his fired cases. Just wanted to run a couple at SAAMI reset.
    -Paul

  16. #16
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Glad you found the problem.

    I like the RCBS 2 lube. Easily washed off sized brass with warm water & 2 drops of Dawn.

    Also, Good lube when sizing cast bullets, using Lees push thru sizer. I size, wash off lube. Oven heat treat bullets. Relube* with 50/50.
    Last edited by 243winxb; 03-14-2023 at 07:38 AM. Reason: *spelling.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master huntinlever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 243winxb View Post
    Glad you found the problem.

    I like the RCBS 2 lube. Easily washed off sized brass with warm water & 2 drops of Dawn.

    Also, Good lube when sizing cast bullets, using Lees push thru sizer. I size, wash off lube. Oven heat treat bullets. Relive with 50/50.
    It's funny as I used to use it, can't recall why I moved over to the wax, it's been so many years. Do you lube the inside of your bottleneck necks at all? I do use the RCBS lube for cast boolits, exactly as you say. I'll roll a ton at the same time, then run them through the push through sizer. Breeze.
    -Paul

  18. #18
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    I use RCBS 2 on their brush to lube and clean the inside of the necks. Then wipe any excess out with a Qtip.

    I need to change to a better inside DRY neck lube. But at 78, its getting to late to change.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinlever View Post
    You nailed it! I can't believe it - I'd wondered if it was just friction binding and so slathered the case inside and out with Imperial wax - it's all I use - but when it made no difference I thought that confirmed it was the wrong size. Using the RCBS lube did it.

    Boy do I feel like an idiot. Thank you!

    ps: I'm picking up the Hornady OAL gauge today, along with comparator and insert, and modified 30-06 case. I'll set the shoulder back from one of his fired cases. Just wanted to run a couple at SAAMI reset.
    Something is still amiss. Imperial wax is the go-to gold standard for hard sizing operations like reforming cases. I am not aware of any product that reduces friction more than Imperial sizing wax?
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Case sizing lubes.

    Seems Imperial wax is not easily removed? https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...moval.4089749/

    The lanolin & alcohol blends seem hard to remove also. Even more so if using the wrong homemade grade of lanolin.

    I have seen the sizing problem online more then a few times. Mostly trying to size 5.56 or 308 "once fired" brass. 2 things fix it. Small base die and/or RCBS 2 lube.

    Spray waxes seen to be the worst. Failure to let it dry, is mostly the problem. Or sticky wax build up.

    RCBS has said they get a lot of fl bottle neck dies returned with stuck brass, where some kind of wax was used as lube.

    I have always used RCBS Case lube. Never had a reason to change. .

    The RCBS lube was a different blend when i started reloading around 1973. I like the current water soluble lube.

    If it works, it works. No reason to change.

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