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Thread: Modern carbine in .30 Carbine?

  1. #41
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by psweigle View Post
    powder coating has greatly help cast shooting in the m1 carbine.
    Actually my 1945 Inland prefers ordinary cast lead with lube over powder coating. Running IMR 4227 pushing a 100 grain LRN bullet gives me 1651.8 fps and 3" accuracy at 100. Living in the land where the government has banned the AR 15 and 1,500 other firearms, the M1 Carbine is a nice alternative for 3 gun matches. Once I scrounged up enough brass, reloading the .30 Carbine cost wise is no different than reloading 5.56mm.

  2. #42
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Garand View Post
    Actually my 1945 Inland prefers ordinary cast lead with lube over powder coating. Running IMR 4227 pushing a 100 grain LRN bullet gives me 1651.8 fps and 3" accuracy at 100. Living in the land where the government has banned the AR 15 and 1,500 other firearms, the M1 Carbine is a nice alternative for 3 gun matches. Once I scrounged up enough brass, reloading the .30 Carbine cost wise is no different than reloading 5.56mm.
    That's an interesting idea I've never thought of. Inside 200 yards you really aren't that handicapped verses a 223 AR-15. If your clubs have stages with 300+ yards targets, then it might get trickier.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cris T View Post
    After just watching a video on the new "Henry Homesteader", I had the idea of "Why don't these manufacturers make carbines in .30 Carbine?"
    Ballistically, I think it is better than a 10mm.
    Maybe it is too powerful for a blowback design?
    30 Carbine is too high pressure for unlocked blow-back without a very heavy bolt. That keeps anyone from making a "simple blowback" 30 Carbine rifle.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawlerbrook View Post
    With the 7.62x39 and the pistol calibers really no need for the 30 Carbine.
    Same is true for 300AAC Blackout.

  5. #45
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    CMMG might be able to shoehorn the 30 carbine in their delayed blow AR15. The run the 10mm in it and that's a pretty high pressure round.

  6. #46
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    I think the beauty of the M1 carbine was a proper match of gun to ammo. Smallest gun for the round. An AR chambered for 30 carbine suffers from the same problem and AR chambered for 9mm to much gun for the cartridge. Should be lighter and smaller for such small cartridges. As far as a lever action or bolt action 30 carbine, well. We already have lever guns in 32-20 and really that are bigger than they need to be as they are good for 44 mag. It would be nice if someone made a smaller frame lever gun for 25-20 and 32-20 or 327 mag. Maybe some of the small action bolts guns sized for .22 hornet could be chambered for 30 carbine. That would be pretty cool.
    Tim
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  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    I think like many of the reduced power rifle and pistol cartridges, it suffers mainly from incorrect marketing.

    Back in Ye Olde Days, there were mostly two camps of gun writers. Back east and out west. The Back-Easters were looking for lower power, less blast, and shorter range for hunting in crowded country. Out-Westers were looking for huge numbers to stretch long ranges in mostly open country.

    On paper, the bigger numbers won. In real life, it has caused problems. If you look at the general decline in shooting sports, it tracks the popularity of magnum cartridges pretty well. Nobody fun shoots the big boomers. At least not for long.

    I think an interesting side effect of cast boolits has been downloading many cartridges to make them a lot more shooter (and wallet) friendly. This has the side effect of making shooting fun again.

    I think this is also reflected in the popularity of the SKS, AK, and AR platform. From a modular perspective allowing ready modification, the AR clearly won.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master

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    The Ruger Deerfield looks pretty close to a M-1 carbine. I had a chances to buy one 14 years ago and have regretted passing on it ever since. Wouldn’t mind seeing it come back into production, maybe with an extended capacity magazine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjs9ZUoZ-Mc

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    300BO is comparable (actually better) than 30 carbine so why bother? Or 30 Ham'r.
    ...and the 7.62x39mm tops them, the .30 Remington AR tops that, and we end up at the .308 Winchester. Where does one want to draw the line?

  10. #50
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    Marlin made a nice little lever action in 30 Carbine!
    They are pricey!
    Mags aren’t cheap either!

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltaenterprizes View Post
    Marlin made a nice little lever action in 30 Carbine!
    They are pricey!
    Mags aren’t cheap either!
    Marlin made a 30 carbine and not a 30-30? I am very curious. Never mind found it. Marlin 62 in 30 carbine. I should have known as I have the 256 mag.

    Thanks
    Ron
    Last edited by MrWolf; 05-20-2023 at 08:29 AM. Reason: Answered my own ?

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    I always thought an M1 carbine in 45 ACP would be pretty cool, using stick mags similar to a grease gun. Marlin had their Camp carbine, which was close but not the same.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    Years ago in a gunshop I saw a carbine action that had been rebuilt as a 44 mag pump action with what looked like a 5 shot mag. I have no idea if it worked and I have no idea who made it. Bolt face was machined flat to the take the rimmed case.

  14. #54
    Boolit Bub
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    I think the Mini 30 would qualify. Great gun, IMHO.....Best wishes

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    Maybe it because of a very limited market demand. The 30 Carbine as had 83 years to gain market share. It has not.

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...y-performance/
    The .30 carbine was very popular in the 1960s, 1970s and into the 1980s as ammunition was inexpensive as were decent M1 carbines. You’d seem out on the range, you’d seem them used for small game ans hog hunting, and you’d see the, in use as truck guns and patrol carbines.

    When supplies of surplus M1 carbines dried up, and surplus ammo became scare, both became sought after collectors items that are rarely shot, and certainly not used in the field by most owners.

    One of the less fortunate artifacts of the M1 Carbine’s collectible status is that it many M1 Carbine owners have multiple M1 carbines which means there are fewer out there. If the average owner owns two, that means half as many M1 carbine shooters are out there looking for ammo.

    And with a smaller market, ammo becomes a niche market with only infrequent production runs, limited availability and much higher prices.

    In order to turn that around, you need a ready supply of affordable firearms firing .30 carbine, but it’s hard to justify tooling up for and marketing new .30 carbines when ammunition is expensive and harder to find.

  16. #56
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by barnetmill View Post
    Years ago in a gunshop I saw a carbine action that had been rebuilt as a 44 mag pump action with what looked like a 5 shot mag. I have no idea if it worked and I have no idea who made it. Bolt face was machined flat to the take the rimmed case.

    You probably saw a Ruger Deerfield carbine (middle). It was a successor for their earlier .44 Magnum carbine (bottom), and was based on the Mini 14.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #57
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    That's an interesting idea I've never thought of. Inside 200 yards you really aren't that handicapped verses a 223 AR-15. If your clubs have stages with 300+ yards targets, then it might get trickier.
    I shot service rifle competition for years before I shot my first tactical rifle match. I noted it was on the schedule the morning before a service rifle match. I bought a surplus Inland M1 carbine literally the day before in excellent condition for $125, along with three new in the wrap 30 round magazines for $10 each and the only two boxes of .30 carbine ammo the gun shop had, 50 round boxes of Lake City ball for $5 each. $165 total in 1987 so equivalent to $440 today. I used 10 rounds to confirm the zero, and then loaded the other 90 in the three magazines for the match.

    When I showed up for the match there was a mix of AR-15, SKS and AK rifles with about half the field using AR-15s, mostly carbines with a few M16 style Colt SP1 rifles. Most of the AR-15 carbines were tarted up with after market triggers and muzzle brakes and a few had the hand guard milled off with an optic installed. The AR-15 crowd was confident and arrogant and felt sure they had the equipment needed to win the light rifle division. I heard a number of comments about my M1 carbine and they wrote me off as potential competition.

    I used the M1 Carbine for the light rifle division and my match grade M1A for the battle rifle division. Max range was 200 yards for the light rifle division and I placed second to the match organizer and his HK 93 in the light rifle division. I won the battle rifle division and took first place over all.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by stubshaft View Post
    Because gun and ammo manufacturers need to have something new and exciting to sell to the masses.
    Sadly that’s spot on.

    Pre .350 Legend, .30-30 was available everywhere and at very good prices. It wasn’t uncommon to find it on sale at a box box store for $8-10 per box of 20.

    This past fall I did not see .30-30 anywhere, but there were loads of .350 Legend, 6.5 Creedmoor and .300 Blackout. This spring I finally started seeing .30-30, along side the .350 Legend that no one around here is buying, but at $40 per box of 20, a four or five fold increase in price, despite the .30-30 still being the most prevalent deer rifle around with Winchester making around 6 million and Marlin making another 5 million or so, and not counting all the other 30-30s made by other labels.

    Winchester lobbied hard in several states for the .350 Legend with its 1.8” case limitation when the .30-30 and smokeless powder loaded 38-55 offer very similar performance, but are illegal in those states that bought Winchester’s lobbying efforts.

    It was clearly all about Winchester wanting to create a new market for rifles and ammo. But when they all but discontinued .30-30 ammo production in favor of .350 Legend in an apparent effort to make those rifles obsolete, it really annoyed me.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master
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    Probably because Winchester ammo (Olin) is separate from Winchester rifles (Herstal Group).

  20. #60
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    yup im another one that wouldnt get exited. ive owned 6 of and still have one real nice inlabd. finding brass is about impossibe and good molds for it are rare too. i have 4 blackout ars. 2 pistol 2 rifle. i can find cheap or free 556 brass everywhere and in an afternoon have 500 pieces of brass. ive got two rcbs 130 spinster gas check molds for plinking and have killed about a half dozen deer with both and the bo is hands down better. loaded with a 110 barnes tssx ive cleanly killed 2 deer at 299 yards. thats something id NEVER try with my m1. then add to that you can put together a BRAND NEW bo for around 400 bucks thats just as reliable ore more and will shoot under an inch at a 100 yards. most of my carbines were minute of coffee can lid at that distance. the one a use mostly for hunting is a free floated 16 in gun and built with cheap psa parts and it has shot one inch 200 yard groups!! i also have a ruger american that will shoot those rcbs cast bullets under 2 inches wit 200fps loads and my pop gun load of 4 grains of bullseye and that cast bullet just as well. pretty much a no brainer to me. im sure not spend a grand to a grand and a half on an m1 carbine no matter how nice it is. i bought all mine back in the 70s and 80s and the most i spent on one was 50 bucks.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check