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Thread: Rebound hammer fix on Winchester/Miroku - again

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Rebound hammer fix on Winchester/Miroku - again

    Hi, folks!

    My first post here.

    I recently bought a Winchester/Miroku 1892 Carbine in .357 Magnum. It's a sweet rifle with a smooth action, but like so many others, I'm not very pleased with the rebound hammer. I'm considering doing the rebound hammer fix (cut off part of the lower leg of the hammer strut so it doesn’t touch the hammer when the hammer is all the way down).

    I've read what I could find on various sites concerning this fix. I have a few questions that I hope you well informed people can answer:

    1.After the fix, is there a greater risk of the firing pin to break during shooting?
    2. Is it correct that the tang safety will still work when the hammer is in the full cock position (the hammer will not hit the firing pin when pulling the trigger)?
    3. Will the tang safety NOT work from the half cock position if you pull the trigger hard? Is there a fix for this?
    4. If, after the fix, the hammer is in the forward position and there is a round in the chamber, will a hard smack on the hammer ignite the round even if the tang safety is on?

    I hope somebody can enlighten me on these questions! Take care!

    Rower
    Last edited by Rowerower; 03-08-2023 at 08:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowerower View Post
    Hi, folks!

    My first post here.

    I recently bought a Winchester/Miroku 1892 Carbine in .357 Magnum. It's a sweet rifle with a smooth action, but like so many others, I'm not very pleased with the rebound hammer. I'm considering doing the rebound hammer fix (cut off part of the lower leg of the hammer strut so it doesn’t touch the hammer when the hammer is all the way down).

    I've read what I could find on various sites concerning this fix. I have a few questions that I hope you well informed people can answer:

    1.After the fix, is there a greater risk of the firing pin to break during shooting?
    2. Is it correct that the tang safety will still work when the hammer is in the full cock position (the hammer will not hit the firing pin when pulling the trigger)?
    3. Will the tang safety NOT work from the half cock position if you pull the trigger hard? Is there a fix for this?

    I hope somebody can enlighten me on these questions! Take care!

    Rower
    not the issue you are talking about but a curious mind wants to know
    with the rifle cocked and lever closed - push the firing pin forward into the bolt - does it move forward ? (should/might be a rebound spring at the front end of the firing pin?) yes / no?
    if yes - hold it forward and slowly start to open (cycle) the lever - if they honoured J M Browning's original design the first little bit of lever stroke should retract the firing pin back mechanically (it dont need the rebound spring that the lawyers added in Japan!) - this means its impossible to create an out of battery discharge (gun wont fire unless lever is full and properly closed)
    I have one japchester (a 1990's vintage model 71) less than impressed with the lawyer inspired features on it and from descriptions hereabouts - later guns suffered more baloney than mine.

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
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    I will check when home from work, Indian Joe.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Here's my experience on a 1985 94, don't know how much in common it has with the 92. It doesn't take much trimming at all to nullify the rebounding hammer, I want to say mine only took 1/8" or so. The only thing I don't like about this modification is that the only thing holding the hammer back in the at rest position is a little hammer block lever that is lowered when the trigger is pulled. On mine at least, this will happen if you pull the trigger while the hammer is at rest and the hammer will move forward a little bit. Now, a firm blow to the hammer could conceivably set it off. With the rebound feature intact, the rebound leg holds the hammer away from the firing pin when it is at rest and even if you pull the trigger and press it forward the hammer moves back into the at rest position.

    I'm thinking about creating a half cock notch in the hammer so the sear will engage while the hammer is at rest, in order to add another means to hold the hammer back.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Turnbull Manufacturing converts the rebounding hammer to a traditional half cock hammer when they take the Miroku 1892 and refinish it. You might call or email them and get some idea of the process. I don't know what they charge for the half cock conversion and refinish your receiver after plugging the hole, but it might be worth asking. If it was only a couple hundred bucks, I imagine it'd be money well spent.

    The Miroku Browning 1892 didn't have the tang safety. I'm not sure about the changes that model has though. But you might be able to find replacement parts by looking there.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    As I understand it, the B92's had the best of both worlds: JMB's original design rendered in modern Japanese steel and typical precision. And that's why they sell for a premium. Even just the original Browning 92 parts to convert a recent 92 back to half cock hammer will set you back a few c-notes if you can even find them. The tang safety doesn't bother me so I would just leave it as is. An old issue of Rifle magazine discussed a way to modify it to where the safety could not be engaged without first pulling the hammer back slightly, to obviate the problem of accidentally putting it on safe.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    Hi, Indian Joe. When I push the firing pin forward when the rifle is coked and the lever closed, the firing pin moves forward. It doesn't move when I slowly open the lever.

  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
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    Thanks for all your replies, Gentlemen. I think I will leave the rifle as is for now. Wouldn't want to have a rifle with a safety that I couldn't trust 100%.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    It’s not a “fix” until it’s broke. Old saying, “don’t fix it if it ain’t broke”.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Is the 92 in question currently having light strikes or other problems? Some of them actually do work properly!
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    My new production 92 has an inertial firing pin. The pin doesn't make contact with the primer with the hammer pushed all the way forward.

    I've considered doing the mod on mine, since the rifle just doesn't look quite right with the hammer laid back like that, but I haven't had any problems with the rifle firing.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy jstanfield103's Avatar
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    I have two new 92's and have done the rebounding hammer on both. Here is what I found out, note that I never had a problem with the rebounding hammer on one. I did mine anyway and happy with it.

    After doing the fix if I left the hammer all the way down against the firing pin and put the safety in the safe position you could not pull the hammer back it was locked against the firing pin, which also means that you can not lever the action. If you put the hammer in half cock and or full cock and put the safety on it would let you pull the trigger but the hammer could not hit the firing pin. Worked great. If you put the hammer in half cock position with safety off and pulled the trigger the hammer will fall and hit the firing pin, but takes a little effort. Just want you to be aware of how the safety would work with the Rebound hammer fix done.
    Aim Small, Miss Small.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    On my 94 AE, if you put the rifle in half cock and pull the trigger, the hammer will move forward but not with enough speed to fire. As I remember, the rebound strut is what keeps the hammer on half cock on this design rather than a sear.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master



    Tazman1602's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazoo View Post
    Turnbull Manufacturing converts the rebounding hammer to a traditional half cock hammer when they take the Miroku 1892 and refinish it. You might call or email them and get some idea of the process. I don't know what they charge for the half cock conversion and refinish your receiver after plugging the hole, but it might be worth asking. If it was only a couple hundred bucks, I imagine it'd be money well spent.

    The Miroku Browning 1892 didn't have the tang safety. I'm not sure about the changes that model has though. But you might be able to find replacement parts by looking there.

    I recently wrote them (Turnbull) for my 1886’s…….$1300 for the tang safety/half notch hammer conversion.

    Art
    ”Only accurate rifles are interesting”
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    In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazman1602 View Post
    I recently wrote them (Turnbull) for my 1886’s…….$1300 for the tang safety/half notch hammer conversion.

    Art
    Sell the Browning and buy a Chiappa ----proly get two for the price of Turnbull conversion + original Browning purchase
    yeah the steel is soft ! ... so ? ....so were the original Winchesters .....how many of those do we see that are actually wore out, not death by neglect ??\

    I have had one wore out one out of about 20 and the barrel was still good in it - all it woulda took to fix was set the barrel back two threads and rechamber --sold it to a collector for what I thought was a stupid price - it had a little wasp stamped in the barrel and "The Stinger" - the mark of a Brisbane gunsmith / importer I was told
    Last edited by indian joe; 03-19-2023 at 10:46 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazman1602 View Post
    I recently wrote them (Turnbull) for my 1886’s…….$1300 for the tang safety/half notch hammer conversion.

    Art
    Considering the effort that Turnbull goes through, that is probably a reasonable price.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Considering the effort that Turnbull goes through, that is probably a reasonable price.
    mebbe so - and if you have it to spare (I dont) ----feel free to throw it anywhere you like.

    I bought a Chiappa 86 recently, it came with good quality wood, nice case harden action finish, and is a proper copy of the original = no lawyer inspired BS.

    its an other option

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold
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    Men, my Miroku 92 in 32-20 was just returned to me from Turnbull. This gun was the Deluxe Octagon Takedown.
    Turnbull removed the rebound hammer, cut a half cock notch. original style (1) piece firing pin and color case hardened the receiver, Butt plate and magazine cap. They cost was exactly what was quoted as was the turnaround. I am highly pleased, the gun turns heads and has a lot better feel to the action.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by cbennett View Post
    Men, my Miroku 92 in 32-20 was just returned to me from Turnbull. This gun was the Deluxe Octagon Takedown.
    Turnbull removed the rebound hammer, cut a half cock notch. original style (1) piece firing pin and color case hardened the receiver, Butt plate and magazine cap. They cost was exactly what was quoted as was the turnaround. I am highly pleased, the gun turns heads and has a lot better feel to the action.
    What was the turn around time with Turnbull ? I could not find it in the above post
    Last edited by square butte; 03-21-2023 at 07:46 PM.
    Being human is not for sissies.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbennett View Post
    Men, my Miroku 92 in 32-20 was just returned to me from Turnbull. This gun was the Deluxe Octagon Takedown.
    Turnbull removed the rebound hammer, cut a half cock notch. original style (1) piece firing pin and color case hardened the receiver, Butt plate and magazine cap. They cost was exactly what was quoted as was the turnaround. I am highly pleased, the gun turns heads and has a lot better feel to the action.
    The quality of Turnbulls work is obvious - just as obvious is that quality of work does not come cheap .

    Its just a durn shame that the people running the japchester factory persist with these foolish changes to what was a very effective original design. The changes are detrimental to functionality and add nothing to overall safety.

    I own a Browning Miruko model 71 - thankfully made early enough it missed out on the tang safety and does have the half cock notch - the rebounding multi part firing pin has failed and been fixed - a serious machining error on the underside of the bolt has been fixed - its a good gun (now)

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