H4227 delayed ignition in large case?

[popper]

IMR is extruded (my error). 4227 is about like ball, heavy coated and ball like surface area.

[john.k]

Be very careful with any kind of filler .......a ringed chamber or neck is quite easy to achieve .....even if you arent trying.

[Recycled bullet]

IMR4227.

[Ford SD]

I ran your 7mag load thru GRT. This is what it spit out and I think it pretty much answers your question as to what is going on.

Attachment 311050

the bottom line that goes from the left to the right side is Pressure ..... it looks like a line that you draw with a pencil = it has a bit of a wave to it

a Normal full load using a jacketed bullet will curve up to almost the top of the page, then curve down slightly
a normal cast load will curve up very close to the bottom of the shaded lines at the top of the page, then curve down slightly

= you have a very low pressure round

I would say looking at the graph you have very dirty cases / cases are not sealing in the chamber

[HARRYMPOPE]

Case and shoulder are very clean no sign of blowback. That's why this is sort of a mystery it's been too windy the last few times out for me to get the chronograph to not blow over that would be the next step out of curiosity.

[LabGuy]

Have y’all ever checked out the National Center for Forensic Science smokeless powder database? Here is the link for H4227: https://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sam...p?powder_id=69

[243winxb]

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor..._200909/100079

Could try a magnum primer.

[Texas by God]

I’m new to 4227 of either flavor but 25 grs of IMR 4227, Remington 9-1/2M primer, and the C309170f Lee in my 30-06 is proving to be crazy accurate. I use the magnum primers to spare my supply of LRP- not because I thought it was needed. But maybe…..
Hangfires using LRP and H414 taught me about ball powder/ LRM long ago in a 25-06.


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[racepres]

I’m new to 4227 of either flavor but 25 grs of IMR 4227, Remington 9-1/2M primer, and the C309170f Lee in my 30-06 is proving to be crazy accurate. I use the magnum primers to spare my supply of LRP- not because I thought it was needed. But maybe…..
Hangfires using LRP and H414 taught me about ball powder/ LRM long ago in a 25-06.


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Good Info... Somethin I should try!!!!

[HARRYMPOPE]

I am already using federal 215 primers

[racepres]

I am already using federal 215 primers

I always thought that 215 Federals were the hottest one can buy!! if that is True... wonders how your load would act with something "Milder"
maybe even a pistol primer...as a lot of Pressure is probably Not going to ensue!!
Just a Curiosity, one that I would pursue... but others probably should Not!!!

[HARRYMPOPE]

I always thought that 215 Federals were the hottest one can buy!! if that is True... wonders how your load would act with something "Milder"
maybe even a pistol primer...as a lot of Pressure is probably Not going to ensue!!
Just a Curiosity, one that I would pursue... but others probably should Not!!!

tried WLR and the 215 with same results
This weekend I'll get out the Oehler 35p and see where im at speed wise

[racepres]

tried WLR and the 215 with same results
This weekend I'll get out the Oehler 35p and see where im at speed wise

Inquiring Minds would love to Know..

[Kestrel4k]

Thank you folks for a few items of interest; I have a couple pounds of IMR4227 that I'll probably use up at some point, although I have virtually no experience with that powder so far. The insight into the ignition characteristics of that powder is most helpful indeed.

I also have a stash of the S&B primers; I suspected with little evidence that they were on the mild side, and a post above reinforces that opinion. I have been using them in lighter loads (with wonderful success) while saving my Winchester primers for heavier loads & ball powders, and I will continue to do so. Thanks again for the info,

[TurnipEaterDown]

Have y’all ever checked out the National Center for Forensic Science smokeless powder database? Here is the link for H4227: https://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sam...p?powder_id=69

Very interesting. Makes you want to say: hmmmmm.
Sure puts the '...this is that...' to test at times, and verifies other statements.

Curious:
A powder named "Nike" that is a cut flake that (by Size ONLY) looks like it could be a rifle powder.
Also, a "781 - Unknown Chinese Powder" stated in picture as "unknown Chinese Powder from Houston Case". Sure makes you wonder what case (presuming law enforcement) and how it was ID'd as Chinese.

[Snakeoil]

Click on it and it will expand. That pressure curve looks like it is taking forever to build pressure. I realize it is the scale, but still, seems awfully late for the peak pressure to be reached.

[TurnipEaterDown]

Click on it and it will expand. That pressure curve looks like it is taking forever to build pressure. I realize it is the scale, but still, seems awfully late for the peak pressure to be reached.

While it's always good to look at inputs for oddities or errors:
Look at the peak: 9787 psi. Smokeless: lowered charges, lowered pressure peak, extended time to peak.
In a "generic" loading simulation: raise the charge, raise the pressure peak, move peak pressure point closer to breach in terms of bullet travel.

[Rapier]

I have found that the 4227s both, like to be positioned right on the primer and held there, for accuracy. If you allow either of them to be loose in a large capacity case, the shots will scatter. I use Spherical Shot Buffer, for buffering shot in shotgun shells, compressed, to hold the powder to the primer. The advantage of SB is you can throw the half way up the neck amount you need using a powder throw.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have found that the 4227s both, like to be positioned right on the primer and held there, for accuracy. If you allow either of them to be loose in a large capacity case, the shots will scatter. I use Spherical Shot Buffer, for buffering shot in shotgun shells, compressed, to hold the powder to the primer. The advantage of SB is you can throw the half way up the neck amount you need using a powder throw.

not so in my experience in the 32-40, 38-55 and 33-47.At least in those "smaller" capacity cases in breech seat schuetzen rifles .the big mag case its probably true though.i just am not a fan of fillers or wads in smokless loads.
I played with super grex 25 years ago and in some instances it left a build-up in the throat of the rifle.

[HARRYMPOPE]

here is data from Hodgdon 1992 manual cast bullet load section.

Attachment 311237