Maybe somone can help

[Wolfdog91]

So wanted to see if maybe someone could help me with my explanation of something. I'm not the best at getting things across, seems I either over explain trying to be detailed and end up over complicating or I don't explain enough because I don't want people to think I'm talking down to them. That or I guess my questions are so weird and not normal it throws folks off .Either way people usually misunderstand what I'm asking or trying to say

So anyhow I asked over on Accurate

"So hope this doesn't come off as a stupid question but was wondering something.
For you guys shooting benchrest ,f class or similar, if yall had to pick a "common" or " off the shelf" caliber for competition ( or just whatever in that level of precision I guess ), what would y'all pick and why? Now when I say common I mean stuff like .223 .243 ,.308 , 6.5 creed .308 ,7mm-08 stuff you can walk into Walmart or most gunshops and see on the shelf. Feeding it Handloads of course but again talking about stuff that if you mentioned them to the average guy they would know what your talking about ( like not many average joes have heard about something like a 6PPC or 284 Shehane lol )
Seems .243 or .7mm-08 would be good from every thing I'm seeing and learning ( preferred bullet weights , diameter and the like) but I've never shot at the level many of you do on the daily ( can't afford it right now anyway lol) so idk.
Anyhow ,just curious on what everyone thinks"

But I've seemed to really confuse alot of folks. I mean don't get me wrong a lot of people are trying to be help ( seriously there one of the nicest forums I've been on most of these guys are waaaayyy beyond me when it comes to precision shooting but most are happy to take time and try and answer my questions in honestly a super respectful and kind manner) and give me advice on how I need to hand load and how I won't be able to compete with Walmart ammo or make a cheap rifle shoot....but that's not really what im asking .

I'm trying to ask " hay if you where stuck with common run of the mill calibers what would you personally pick and why ?" But man I can't for the life of me convey what I'm trying to say properly . Idk if it's a disconnect of me just not having the ability to explain myself well with proper vocabulary and terminology or maybe it's one of those deals where you just have such a skill level gap that ( me on the low side them on the high side of course) that what makes sense to me is just not even in the ball park of thought for them . I guess I'm coming across as some kid trying to find some magic $1000 set up that cheap and will let me shoot Walmart ammo and be able to compete against seasoned reloaders and shooters with high class custom rigs
Idk , anyone possibly have a better way to word my question so it makes more sense ?
Thanks

[Armorer77]

USMC used a Rem 700 heavy barrel , the M40 in 308 for many years , I don't know what they are using now . 1000 yd shots were common and expected . Ed

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Agree. For everyday types it's hard to beat the .308.

DG

[fayettefatts]

My experience has been that there are a lot of good accurate cartridges out there. The three things that make a cartridge great are barrels, bullets and brass.

[deces]

I try to stick with milsurp calibers because of their commonality.

[Handloader109]

I laser engrave stuff as a small business. I've a long range competition shooter who builds custom guns as a side business. I've lasered his logo and calibers on about a half dozen barrels in past year. I've done 3 or 4 308 barrels, a couple 6.5 Creedmoor, and just did a 284 shehane for him. I do know one of each of these is his guns. Seems 308 is most popular as it has been over half of the guns he's made.
Oh and these barrels atart as 1 1/2 steel rods and he doesn't take much off. Heavy guns

[HWooldridge]

I have a very accurate 7mm-08 but if I had to choose only one, I'd stick with .308 in some brand of bolt action. As mentioned, the Rem 700 with heavy barrel is hard to beat.

[ascast]

308 bolt gun - cheap brass, every shop on the planet has one or two boxes of bullets of some kind,-volumes of established proven data. A good friend of mine claims that 30-06 is most overrated inaccurate cartridges out there. He shoots a lot from bench at 90 yds, 5 shot groups. He NEVER shoots IMR-4895 because it is chunky in the thrower. He uses Win 761 I think. It meters so nicely. Don't be afraid to do what 10,000'2 other shooters have already proven.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Okay, I understood what you're asking as to caliber and the answer is funner and simpler than you think, (it's also interactive).

Here's the game, look at cartridges, (a loading manual of your choice is helpful as well as your knowing your area sources of ammunition) from .22-.30 discounting of course .23 and .29. Take one caliber at a time and sort them out as to availability, useful range, and purpose. Once you have what you think are the winners of each diameter you can run them off for your number one-two-three etc. pick. (I'll do my pics below)

.22-.223/5.56NATO

.24-.243 Winchester

.25-.25/06

.26-(this is a tough one for me) .260 Remington

.27-.270 Winchester

.28-7mm/08 Remington

.30-.308/7.62 NATO

Based on cartridge performance, I would pick the 7mm/08. Based on availability and cost, the .223/5/56mm NATO would be the clear winner. Consider availability, cost, accuracy, range, and utility and I come up with the .308/7.62 NATO as the over-all winner, with the 7mm/08 running a tight second, (based strictly on performance, the 7mm/08 wins).

Some of my pics were based on parent cartridge availabillity like the .243-.260-7mm/08, all off-spring of the .308, (of 7 listed calibers, 4 are based on the .308 case). All are easily reloaded with obtainable components, and just one powder of your choosing can load any and all, my three top pics of powder would be, Varget-IMR4064-IMR4895.

[Minerat]

Simplified question. What off the shelf caliber would you suggest for F class or similar and why do you recommend it?

Might get you the answer you are looking for.

[rockrat]

I would add in the 260AI and the 6.5Creedmoor. Maybe you should have asked the question along the lines of what calibers where you could go to WM or such and find ammo you might want to practice trigger control or wind doping, instead of your competition ammo. Or make ammo using less than match quality components.
In deciding on what caliber, look also at what is available in competition components. Great 22,24, 6.5mm, and 30 cal components with 7mm behind those 4, but catching up. Also what match quality brass is available.
I saw your post on Accurate. Those guys are levels above me, but I have learned a lot from them and where I used to be glad to shoot under 1" groups, that has changed. They have cost me $$, but so has this site!!

[contender1]

Funny, I understood your question immediately. Your question was not about the ammo itself,, it was a caliber specific question. You want to be able to buy ammo in many "normal" places,, so an off the shelf, popular caliber is preferred.

That said,, while several very accurate calibers are out there,, you have to ask yourself the question; "What purposes OTHER than "F Class" might I use the gun for?

Decades ago, the .222 Rem was THE caliber of choice. Then it was replaced by others. If you desire paper punching & possibly smaller animal use,, then the .223/5.56 would be a good choice.
And while the 7mm-08 is a VERY good caliber,, not as many stores carry ammo for it.
But for an overall competition AND general use caliber,,, I'd look very closely at the .308 Win. Better at longer ranges than the .223 due to a heavier bullet. Can be down loaded for smaller critters & has proven itself to be a solid medium & big game caliber. And as noted above,, it's got a proven track record in competition as well.

[Rich/WIS]

My only experience with the type of shooting you are going for was with a mid 60's Rem 700 ADL in 6mm Rem. At that time Remington had a loading IIRC they called "Power-Lokt" and it would reliably group into an inch or less sat 100 yards. The rifle is long gone and don't think Remington still makes that ammo. Other rifle is a M70 FWT in 243 Win, will also group into a MOA for the first 3 shots but as the light barrel gets hot groups open up. This is not a recommendation for rifles/calibers but it does demonstrate that what you are looking for is do-able.

I'll second the suggestion for a Rem 700 with a heavy barrel, pick a caliber that you like, and plan to reload with quality bullets and weighed charges. An adjustable match grade trigger and a high magnification scope are a must as well. Have fun and good luck in your quest.

[farmbif]

dont know a whole lot about competitive shooting. but the bergara in 6.5 creedmoor that its the same price as a new savage classic right out of the box is more accurate than I am. and supposedly Remington 700 modifications will also fit the bergara if you ever choose to make modifications.

[lightman]

I didn't feel that your question was too complicated.

For F class, a 308, 243 or one of the Creedmoors. Off the shelf Creedmoor ammo would be the harder one to find. Because there are lots of good bullet choices in those calibers. For what its worth I shot a 308 when I competed in F class.
Benchrest is a whole different animal. In short range benchrest the 6mm PPC pretty much dominates the sport and you won't be competitive with any off the shelf caliber. I doubt you will ever see any PPC ammo on dealers shelves. Most is made from Lapua 220 Russian brass. In long range benchrest the same off the shelf calibers used in F class would be my pick. But most of the winners are using something that you won't find on the shelf. Again, for what its worth, I used a 6.5-285 when I competed.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Your question was just fine...I'd say it's more likely the audience's problem, not because they misunderstood you, it's more they are jumping to the next question before it's asked.

I'd offer a simple anecdote before the question is asked. Like perhaps when I started Rifle League using a stock Ruger 10/22 off the shelf of the local hardware store. That first event I went to was quite a lesson to be learned when all the other benches had equipment on them that'd cost 3 months wages. Well, I won't continue with my anecdote, you'll have your own to work up.

OK, with that out of the way, I am partial to the 243. There sure are a lot of guns out there in that caliber, both new and old. Years ago at a gunshow, I swapped for a 243 Benchrest rifle made off a Mauser action. I never got it to shoot well with cast, but it was a bell ringer with jacketed bullets. I suspect that $400 gun could have done ok in a competition.

[jdgabbard]

Yeah, like JonB said, I think this is an audience-problem. Not a question-problem. People in certain circles tend to get blinded by opinions strongly held by the camp. Happens here to a certain degree as well. I sometimes ask a question and get recommendations that have nothing to do with the question I ask about. Or, for an example, you post an WTB add in the S&S sub-forum and get a response to go to such and such website...which defeats the purpose of the S&S forum in my opinion...

That said, as to caliber selection, that's a tough one. And I think that it also depends somewhat on your geographical location. At least in my hometown you were more likely to find 30-06 over 308 in the past. But as far as a universally available caliber, probably be 308 today, or possibly a 270. But that may be vastly different where you live. I don't, nor have I ever shot benchrest matches. So I don't understand the fuss. But I've found most modern calibers can be very accurate if fed the right ammo. And would even go so far to say that most modern rifles will outshoot most rifles from 50 years ago. I personally had a Mossberg ATR 100 in 30-06 that I was amazed would shoot 1" groups right out of the box. Not bad for a $200 (at the time) rifle. Anecdotally, I've "always heard" that 7mm calibers were the most accurate. I'm not sure I believe that seeing the Black Powder guys shooting those rams at ridiculous distances. So if it were me, I'd just find a caliber in a rifle that I felt as though I could shoot well with. And then let the sport and my experience I gained let me decide which direction I took it from there.

[blackthorn]

Your post (#1) clearly asked for help identifying what you were doing wrong with phrasing a question : "I'm trying to ask " hay if you where stuck with common run of the mill calibers what would you personally pick and why ?" ---The next 8 posts addressed the knowledge sought, going direct to the that end, as pointed out in post #16. Seems to me you answered your own (original) specific question. Just saying---

[MUSTANG]

Given your Question and my Bias:

1. .308 would be my choice. Next would be a 300 WinMag. I would not land on the 30-06 because it is an incremental between the .308W and the 300 WinMag. A premium bullet is required for any choice.

2. Many of the F Class shooters will "Chase Technology & Trend". Whom-Ever is winning matches, with whatever cartridge, will influence the almost won and below groups to switch calibers and cartridge case type.

3. Where is money best spent on competing (maybe not being competitive)? Firstly, a premium bullet. Secondly, an above average scale for weighing every charge. Thirdly, the tools necessary for "Match" preparing and measuring brass, bullets, seating, ad-nauseum etc. minor tweaks to consistency round to round. Lastly; expend the money with the best and most desired Gunsmith you can afford to build the rifle. My Barber spent $5,0000 on a 300 Norma Magnum and I taught him to reload. Depending on his application of First through Third principles in this paragraph; he can equal or dramatically reduce group sized compared to factory rounds.

4. Gift and Capabilities of the shooter. We can all work to increase our skills; but there may always be a better shooter than ourselves. Truth in Shooting - There are many who can shoot better than ourselves in written or verbal form; but they seem to have a bad day at the range if one is there with them. Actual paper with holes made on the range means the most. Develop the skills to shoot at long distance, some requirements to dos so: Dramatically increase your personal fitness (general statement is that a better fit person can control the Rifle and themselves while shooting compared to someone less fit), ensure your have good visual acuity - get glasses if needed, practice/practice/practice (dry & live firing) then practice more. Get a "Coach" to assist you; they should be able to see things you are doing wrong that you can not. Lastly - have fun.

[popper]

Probably 7/08. Good BC bullets. 243 barrels don't last long. IIRC Hornady has ELD 308 bullets. Either will do the hunting job too.