Freezing of Group buys

[Teddy (punchie)]

I will put in my 2 cents....
Mold maker is a way of life not business....

Last 2 years are testing my nerves to the moon and back.
-waiting times for materials (when I started this it was up to a week - now at least 3 months)
-waiting for cherry cutter up to a 2 months (Imagine that first try is not in specification...... another 2 months.....etc)
-No one is prepared to work any more
-My working week is 7 days (at least 10 hours per day)

I can continue, but I have work to do

Sad as it is the top people that carry the work place are the only ones that understands with out work hours and OT something just wouldn't get done, and no one would have a job.

[Rickf1985]

I will put in my 2 cents....
Mold maker is a way of life not business....

Last 2 years are testing my nerves to the moon and back.
-waiting times for materials (when I started this it was up to a week - now at least 3 months)
-waiting for cherry cutter up to a 2 months (Imagine that first try is not in specification...... another 2 months.....etc)
-No one is prepared to work any more
-My working week is 7 days (at least 10 hours per day)

I can continue, but I have work to do

I think this says it all, Coming from the very mold maker I have been talking about and quoting.

[mpkunz607]

Rick, information regarding necessary business contacts and previous experience actually DO become available when an offer is presented for purchase of a market-ready product. Am I right ? How does one even order something without that information ? Until then, you personally have no need whatsoever for more information so early in what is my process, not your process.

I asked for the forum to sit tight and be patient. You’re going to need to accept that. I am not giving out more information at this point as it would open up the business phones and emails to possibly being bombarded by pointless inquiries which do nothing to make this happen any sooner. As Chris stated, my post was about "testing the waters". There is no way to know if there is sufficient market interest without asking. But of course once that question has been made public, which it was on February 23, the door opens up to exactly the kind of nonsense you are now fomenting. And of course from my perspective, I still see 1600+ views, and only 20 responses, and in those responses only 3 indications that this is worth pursuing.

And then there is you. Let me give you my take on the feedback I am getting. 1) There is not enough interest among the general forum population as they have not been responding. Indeed part of that might be that they look at the posts and are turned away by your posts. 2) I get the feeling that you personally would do anything you can to sabotage any effort to make this work because you are happy being miserable, and you’re angry that I will not give you information you want even though I will not benefit from from giving you. Your own posts demonstrate that you are impatient and when you want something you want it immediately. Your own posts show that you are unhappy that a man in eastern Europe who has made superb moulds in the past (I know as I own several) has been having difficulty making moulds because of covid and a nearby war shutting down his supply lines, neither of which the poor guy has any control over. Heck, I wonder how he is even making ends meet under those conditions. And your attitude that is on display here ? You’re 25% of the people supplying that feedback I received and you’re not even going to kill the goose that layed the golden egg, you’re going to kill the goose before it can lay its first golden egg.

You’re post airs grievances that have nothing to do with me or my business activities. I haven’t so much as cut a single chip yet. Would you please do me the courtesy of waiting until you have in your possession from me an unsatisfactory product, until you have contacted me about what is wrong with that product, and until you also have an unsatisfactory resolution before continuing in your campaign of negativity ? My business is successful. I do not need to take on this headache. I can just walk away, and people like you make it a very comfortable path.

[Rickf1985]

So poor response is all my fault? These are grown men with their own minds and opinions. Strong ones at that. I am a nobody to them. I am not an influence on them. If you want to make this personal do so in a PM! I was only stating facts as I saw them. And this sir, "I get the feeling that you personally would do anything you can to sabotage any effort to make this work because you are happy being miserable" is a threat. I do not like to be threatened. I am NOT miserable. You came in here as a newbie with a powerful friend and this is how you can get away with treating people like this. Now I will most likely get an infraction due to this. Thank you very much. It is sad that others have not commented on the subject. I am done with it.

[mpkunz607]

My response was not poor, Rick. It was appropriate since nobody had and have no need to know any more than what was posted. You had no need to post that at it entirely altered the intent and course of the thread. There was no need for you to respond with anything other than "yes, I'm interested" or just leave it alone entirely. The downward spiral this thread took is entirely on you. Oh, and BTW, you were never threatened, don’t try to spin yourself as a victim, its very unbecoming.

Thank you for being done with the topic.

[MrWolf]

Rick, information regarding necessary business contacts and previous experience actually DO become available when an offer is presented for purchase of a market-ready product. Am I right ? How does one even order something without that information ? Until then, you personally have no need whatsoever for more information so early in what is my process, not your process.

I asked for the forum to sit tight and be patient. You’re going to need to accept that. I am not giving out more information at this point as it would open up the business phones and emails to possibly being bombarded by pointless inquiries which do nothing to make this happen any sooner. As Chris stated, my post was about "testing the waters". There is no way to know if there is sufficient market interest without asking. But of course once that question has been made public, which it was on February 23, the door opens up to exactly the kind of nonsense you are now fomenting. And of course from my perspective, I still see 1600+ views, and only 20 responses, and in those responses only 3 indications that this is worth pursuing.

And then there is you. Let me give you my take on the feedback I am getting. 1) There is not enough interest among the general forum population as they have not been responding. Indeed part of that might be that they look at the posts and are turned away by your posts. 2) I get the feeling that you personally would do anything you can to sabotage any effort to make this work because you are happy being miserable, and you’re angry that I will not give you information you want even though I will not benefit from from giving you. Your own posts demonstrate that you are impatient and when you want something you want it immediately. Your own posts show that you are unhappy that a man in eastern Europe who has made superb moulds in the past (I know as I own several) has been having difficulty making moulds because of covid and a nearby war shutting down his supply lines, neither of which the poor guy has any control over. Heck, I wonder how he is even making ends meet under those conditions. And your attitude that is on display here ? You’re 25% of the people supplying that feedback I received and you’re not even going to kill the goose that layed the golden egg, you’re going to kill the goose before it can lay its first golden egg.

You’re post airs grievances that have nothing to do with me or my business activities. I haven’t so much as cut a single chip yet. Would you please do me the courtesy of waiting until you have in your possession from me an unsatisfactory product, until you have contacted me about what is wrong with that product, and until you also have an unsatisfactory resolution before continuing in your campaign of negativity ? My business is successful. I do not need to take on this headache. I can just walk away, and people like you make it a very comfortable path.

In my opinion, your comments are an inappropriate response. You asked for opinions and feedback and got them. There is history with folks stating they would do such and such with folks here contributing and trying to help out and then got burned. He asked realistic questions and raised concerns. I did not see anything disrespectful in the responses nor did I see him state anything negative concerning Mihec. There are a few more vendors now who make moulds basically on demand which changed the whole group buy dynamics. It sounds like you may want to evaluate your business assumptions/aspirations with respect to the current mould making enterprise and your own tolerances. How you handle what you consider negative feedback says a lot.

[mpkunz607]

Go back to the first post. I asked for information. Got two positives, yes, interested. Had a good interaction with Lakehouse2012. Met with Chris in a google meet. Waited weeks and from you I got "Be wary" and from Rick, I got demands for information he had no need for whatsoever that in no way would help me move forward and steered the entire thread topic off the original intent of the post. I'm actually glad this worked out this way, it gives me way more feedback about people purchasing custom moulds. Knowledge of the demographics is important information even when it enters the picture in a sideways and unexpected manner. I had not at all anticipated when I made my original post. Fortunately I had only my CAD time invested. You are correct, there is no need for me to get involved in making them.

[SeabeeMan]

Been too many upstarts that "took the money and ran" deals lately.

Some of come through before folding, such as the HM2 molds from JTKnives on here years back. Others have just been an outright scam, like the 22LR swaging startup who took money from members to get going. XD4584 was his handle, I believe his name was Kyle Harper.

[JimB..]

I’d be happy to see a new custom mold maker. I’m not unhappy with the current ones, but competition is generally good for the consumer.

That said, I’d never encourage someone to get into it as a business. The customer base is shrinking, and even if it wasn’t it seems that the average bullet caster is a cranky old guy that counts his pennies.

[sukivel]

I’d be happy to see a new custom mold maker. I’m not unhappy with the current ones, but competition is generally good for the consumer.

That said, I’d never encourage someone to get into it as a business. The customer base is shrinking, and even if it wasn’t it seems that the average bullet caster is a cranky old guy that counts his pennies.

Lot of truth here…


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[Minerat]

Keep it civil guys. Bickering will not help anyone and could get the discussion terminated.

[Lakehouse2012]

Hi Steve, I think everyone was well intentioned, just how guys are with their hobbies....


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[Minerat]

I agree Chris, just some times we need to take a couple of deep breathes before hitting reply.

[hades]

Mpkunz, I'm one of the 1600 views and haven't said anything. I've probably contributed to more than a few of those 1600 views.

If you get some machines running to make molds, have some designs I feel like I need to have, and are reasonably priced, I'd be buying one from you at some point.

[HATCH]

Only recently in the past couple weeks has ANY group buy molds on CB being shipped.
Some of the ones that just were shipped out had been complete and waiting for 18 months.
We will just have to see how everything else goes.

To be brutally honest, I am unsure if group buys will come back or not.

When I first joined CB, Lee was the go to on custom molds. They would make what we wanted. I still have a few of the group buy molds from Lee
Then it became more of a hassle for Lee and not profitable so they stopped.
I believe we had a couple other companies make some then somehow we settled on Mihec molds.
Don't get me wrong, Mihec molds are a work of art.
But with the way supply and demand has been going it isn't cost effective to make custom molds when the standard molds are being sold faster then they can be built.

[JimB..]

To the OP, I tend to agree with your assessment of the feedback thus far, but it’s always really hard to get feedback about a business idea. IMHO you’d get more feedback with a better thread title, something like “a new custom mould maker” or “what should be the first mould design I manufacture.” I also think it’s better to ask for feedback about the state of the existing market, eg what do you want that you can’t get, can’t get timely, can’t get at a reasonable pricepoint, etc.

You undoubtedly need to make and sell a good high demand mould first to prove that you can make a good product, but then you could PM or email the folks on the frozen group buy lists.

Last thought, for launching your business think about the influencers. Who on here do people listen to about the quality of molds? Maybe it’s the former honchos, maybe collectors, maybe folks with high post counts. Talk to them, figure out what they’d like to see, make something they want and are willing to work with you to develop.

Really last thought, there is demand for a mold for lead hammers. There was a group buy many years ago. It’s not a bullet mould, but it should be a pretty easy project and may not require any new machines. I really want one that casts a head that slips onto a tapered handle like a froe or an adze, but the non-woodworkers may want one that cast directly onto a turned aluminum handle. Sign me up for your first one if you go this route!

Another member recently posted a lament that there isn’t a mould available to cast pure lead slugs for slugging barrels. The idea was a mold with several different sizes of holes the end of which are slightly tapered. Folks suggested other ways to make slugs, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t buy a mold.

Good luck with your decision, and have fun with it because it won’t make you rich!

[Dimner]

Seems like quite a few people with all the negativity have no clue how a new business is started. I guess ignorance is bliss. Just by the fact the the OP is taking the appropriate steps to put together a plan and assessments gives me confidence in their ability to see this through.

But to the topic at hand. I would be very interested in a new mold maker and the initial mold being considered. I would buy 2 actually and a friend of mine who is not a member here would also buy one. (or I would buy 3).

[Dimner]

I should also add... that there may be a market that exists that is not being addressed by any mold maker.

That is creation of custom/user designed molds for 7mm and under. I know for sure I would have already made and purchased two 7mm designs if that kind of service were available. I can see 6mm and 6.5mm user designed molds being very popular.

[TD1886]

Only recently in the past couple weeks has ANY group buy molds on CB being shipped.
Some of the ones that just were shipped out had been complete and waiting for 18 months.
We will just have to see how everything else goes.

To be brutally honest, I am unsure if group buys will come back or not.

When I first joined CB, Lee was the go to on custom molds. They would make what we wanted. I still have a few of the group buy molds from Lee
Then it became more of a hassle for Lee and not profitable so they stopped.
I believe we had a couple other companies make some then somehow we settled on Mihec molds.
Don't get me wrong, Mihec molds are a work of art.
But with the way supply and demand has been going it isn't cost effective to make custom molds when the standard molds are being sold faster then they can be built.

I love Mihec moulds. With that said the biggest problem I see with him is he won't (that I know of) make one off moulds like Accurate does. I don't have any problems with shipments from him, in fact get moulds faster from him then if the company was in the States. Only thing bad I have to say about Accurate is that all his bullet designs have to have that .180 mepat. That ruins a lot of designs, but helps some.

[mpkunz607]

In defense of Accurate, and I would not know them from Adam & Eve, in all likelihood the reason that his stock bullet designs all have the same meplat is probably because he has only a handful of cherry designs, or maybe even just one, to make all of his bullet profiles. LEE at one time did "custom" molds but even their so-called custom work was clearly from LEE as most bullets had similar geometries.

So I just looked at the Accurate page of bullet profiles and I can tell you that actually appears to be the case. The different calibers and weights come from the magic of adjusting the gcode to get what you want in the cut. Which means its very likely that they have made a business decision to stick with that cherry geometry because adding others or changing the existing design would affect other aspects of their business model. Just a guess.