Odd question, for the hunters..

[Krh1326]

I thank you all, for the input.
I’d love an excuse, to add to my Arsenal, but the economy, being retired, and this lil adventure looming, it’s not in my realistic column.

Not going to run cast or reloaded ammo, for this, anyway. I’m shopping for the highest velocity 230 gr solid I can get my hands on. Love to find truncated cones, that aren’t HP….

[lar45]

I'd choose your 1911 45acp, but carry 45 super loads with a heavy non-expanding bullet.
I load a 45-275 from hunter's supply with Bluedot for my 7" longslide. Larry Gibson is going to pressure test my loads when he gets some time.

[Electrod47]

Years ago I was flyfishing in Wyoming. Standing in the middle of a small river waist deep. I was carrying in a shoulder rig a 4" barreled Ruger Security 6 .357 magnum loaded with some 180 grain bullets a friend loaded up just for this trip. Along the shore walking stiff legged was a Grizzly Bear, about 50 yards distant staring right at me. Just me and him. I was warned this might happen, but probably wouldn't somebody said. I knew immediatly the .357 wasn't gonna cut it. Any Bravado I had earlier was Gone. At that moment, I would have traded my 401,my house, my boat and my car for a Mossberg 12 HUNG on my shoulder loaded with slugs rather than pondering taking that guy on with a handgun. Fortunate, He kept on walking. I didn't feel like fishing anymore that day.

[RSAPD]

Brown bear you should get a 44 mag revolver. I would take the 357 over the semi auto pistols. If you don’t make your own loads, buffalo bore makes an awesome load for this application. 180 grain hardcast round that has plenty of punch and penetration.

[Meatball357]

The distant encounters- all 200 to 400 yard range - I've had with grizzlies while hunting or fishing in Montana & Yellowstone makes me agree with what Mr. Electrod says.

That one standing on his hind legs in the middle of the road on the North Fork of the Flathead was impressively huge & scary, even from inside my F350. That one up the Taylor Fork that was walking at us but disappeared in a dense fog - he had my bearhunting buddy & I poised with rifles (338 & 300 H&H) until the fog lifted. No idea how close he came. And armed with bear spray & fly rods on the Lamar River, my wife & I were way too far from the truck if that thing chose us over the bison he was circling.

But having zero experience with a real griz encounter, I'm like most of us here.

We hike in SW Montana literally every few days. Black bears we enjoy seeking out. But grizzlies will dictate your fate. When in their world, we each pack bear spray as primary, and hope we won't have to deploy at close range our 44 mag or 357 mag loaded with Buffalo Bore. Yeah, probably I'm a weenie. They scare me.

[wolfdog]

I thank you all, for the input.
I’d love an excuse, to add to my Arsenal, but the economy, being retired, and this lil adventure looming, it’s not in my realistic column.

Not going to run cast or reloaded ammo, for this, anyway. I’m shopping for the highest velocity 230 gr solid I can get my hands on. Love to find truncated cones, that aren’t HP….

Just some ideas.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018750627?pid=908470
https://www.midwayusa.com/ltd/product?pid=764427
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019461062?pid=850433
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001481938?pid=933520

[Hannibal]

IMO a 12 ga. shotgun with slugs, even better, a 45/70 guide gun with 500 + pure lead slugs. The shot gun will hold 5, the guide gun will hold more..

He's going hiking and fishing. I'd not consider packing around a long gun of any type.

No firearm is useful in such a situation if it's not readily available and able to be used quickly when needed.

[M-Tecs]

While I have great respect for grizzly bears, I am not scared of them. I have been within 20 feet of 5 1/2" to 6 1/2' grizzly bears a couple of times. They do get your attention. I have been within 40 yards of one that was close to 9 1/2' and a thousand pounds. I am hoping to find him this spring. If I do, he will be coming home with me.

I have also shot over the backs of 3 bears to scare them out of camp. One about 5 1/2' or a little more was not scared by four shoots over his back with a 12 gauge. He walked up to withing 20 feet of us after having four shots fired over his back. He was too close to shoot in the butt with 9 shot so I shot him in the butt with a slingshot. That did motivate him to leave. Yes, I did have a 375 H&H handy and my buddy with a 12 gauge with slugs backing me up. I was also only wearing underwear since both my buddy and I were still sleeping when the bear started making noise on the porch.

I have pics but when I try to upload them I get a failure message.

[Krh1326]

Just ordered 40 rounds of those Underwood copper Phillips bits….
I’m thinking winner, winner…chicken dinner!

Enough to get some quality range time in, and enough time to order more, if I’m good with them.
Thank you all.

[billmc2]

Just ordered 40 rounds of those Underwood copper Phillips bits….
I’m thinking winner, winner…chicken dinner!

Enough to get some quality range time in, and enough time to order more, if I’m good with them.
Thank you all.

I like those Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defender bullets. That's what Underwood loads. I've been carrying the Underwood 9mm on a daily basis for for some time now. They first came out with the Xtreme Penetrator. The first videos of the 9mm were not able to show the full amount of penetration because the setup used to catch the bullet wasn't long enough. The bullet went all the way through everything and was not recovered (lost).

I know you said you were not going to handload for this trip but because 45 Super was mentioned, I thought I'd share this article about Ramshot Enforcer. https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...e-45-acp/99214

I have a box of the 0.451 200gr Xtreme Penetrator bullets. I still have more research to do but I'd like to try the Enforcer powder with those Lehigh bullets. Close to 45 Super velocities at ACP pressure.

I think something like that would be perfect for a situation like you mention.

(I'm also predicting you'll be going back to Underwood for more. https://underwoodammo.com/45-acp-p-2...me-penetrator/ )

[gumbo333]

Get a 10 round mag. Fill it up.

[Chena]

Setting aside the 9 mm, mechanical reliability is more important than caliber. Once they make up their minds, brown bears move very, very fast. I have been charged twice and in neither instance would have had time to clear a semi-auto jam. After reliability comes frequent practice with the chosen weapon and holster, including the draw and timed stress drills if possible. Dry fire is a great supplement to range time. As noted, the advantage of a handgun over a long gun is that you never have to put it down. I have had two surprise close encounters that could have ended badly because I had put down my rifle to take a leak. I know of one instance in which a person being mauled while carrying a handgun managed to draw and shoot the bear off of him, and another in which someone hand-carrying a shotgun was hit by surprise and the gun went flying out of reach. Bear aggression: it varies from place to place, season by season and bear to bear. Treat any encounter as a potential threat. Any encounter under 25 yards in which the bear is aware of you and not making a retreat is code black. The only possible exceptions in Alaska are places where the bears are very well fed and highly habituated to humans, like the viewing areas at McNeil River.

[Bigslug]

147 grain flat point FMJ's in the 9mm, i.e. Winchester USA9MM1 https://winchester.com/Products/Ammu...un/USA/USA9MM1

It'll likely outpenetrate the rest of your auto options and more than double your Ruger's round count.

.45 hardball would be a fair second choice. It was, after all, designed to "Screw you AND the horse you rode in on". Added velocity won't really gain you any performance that's worth leaving the comfortable operating ranges for. If you can flat-point the FMJ, better still, but the above 9mm will probably still penetrate better.

The .40 and .357 Sig are both high pressure rounds optimized for an unright-standing, not terribly thick target. Not enough mass for diameter in them IMO.

Ballistically, your .357 is better than all of them - if you can get comfortable with five of them.

[atr]

in my opinion....pick the firearm that throws the most lead in the shortest amount of time. And pray you never have to use it.
best
atr

[jdgabbard]

Everything I have ever read about bear encounters suggests that the only "reasonable firearm caliber" you named is the .357mag. And even that is extremely marginal given it's capability with the given barrel length and capacity.

As I understand it, the Glock 20 in 10mm has become the new standard for bear defense. As the 10mm is a heavy fast moving bullet which has enough mass for deep penetration. And the Glock 20 has a large enough capacity to throw a lot of those heavy slugs at the target. But if you're looking towards the past, pretty much you're going to see guys historically using big bore revolver cartridges, such as the 44 spl/mag, 45LC, 41mag, etc. That is addition to their primary arm, such as 30-06, 7mm Mag, and the likes.

If it were me, I wouldn't trust any of those options you gave. 20 some odd years ago I saw some pretty gruesome pictures of a hiker who carried a 357mag snub who had a bear encounter. Mostly eaten with an empty cylinder in the gun laying next to him. A week or so later a bear in the area was shot by a hunter. It had five 35cal slugs in it as the story goes. The story may be complete fabrication. But I'm not betting my life on those options. Luckily we don't have those critters in Oklahoma, at least not larger bear species. But if the 357mag is considered mariginal for deer, I can guarantee you it's marginal for bear at best. Get a bigger gun...

[Cast10]

40 S&W with some stout loads and you’ll be defended.

[popper]

175ish 40sw is equal to 200gr 10mm. Both 1100fps & 4-500 ft/#ish. Small meplat TC for penetration. Not HP!

[Larry Gibson]

krh1326

I have hunted and fished SW Alaska (Nushigak River). Of these three handguns you have;

1) SP101 4” barrel .357 mag 5 rnd cyl .
2 ) Sig Sauer P229. I have barrel/slide/mag configs, for 9mm , .40SW & .357sig
3) 1911 5” govt .45 acp

I would go with the M1911 45 ACP carried in a readily accessible holster on the outside of any coats. Only "mod" would be a 20 lb spring. I'd use a hard cast 30 gr TC bullet such as the Lee 452-230-TC loaded over Blue Dot for 1000+ fps. I'd use an 8 round magazine with one up the spout giving 9 rounds in the gun. A spare magazine would be carried also readily accessible.

Situational awareness of bears in the immediate vicinity while in bear country is far more important than the firearm carried. Simply avoid them.

[Friends call me Pac]

Not on your list but I carried a .44 mag in a Uncle Mike's shoulder holster the 4 years I lived in Alaska and never felt worried. I never had to shoot a bear with it and I was also bullet proof all of those years ago. In my mind a grizz didn't stand a chance.



My buddy carried a 45 acp while I carried the .44 and both of us never feared. I will say this about my perceived notion of the difference in power between the 2 choices. One day we were standing on an old defunct bridge maybe 10 yards above the creek we liked to fish. For whatever reason we wanted to see how much difference our two handguns would make shooting straight down into the creek. Kevin went first with the .45 and it caused a considerable explosion of water. I followed up with the .44 and talk about a visual difference. It was like night and day to me. I carry a .45 for 2 legged threats but after that day when I couldn't have a long gun out in the woods I stuck with my .44 mag.

[muskeg13]

krh1326

I have hunted and fished SW Alaska (Nushigak River). Of these three handguns you have;

1) SP101 4” barrel .357 mag 5 rnd cyl .
2 ) Sig Sauer P229. I have barrel/slide/mag configs, for 9mm , .40SW & .357sig
3) 1911 5” govt .45 acp

I would go with the M1911 45 ACP carried in a readily accessible holster on the outside of any coats. Only "mod" would be a 20 lb spring. I'd use a hard cast 30 gr TC bullet such as the Lee 452-230-TC loaded over Blue Dot for 1000+ fps. I'd use an 8 round magazine with one up the spout giving 9 rounds in the gun. A spare magazine would be carried also readily accessible.

Situational awareness of bears in the immediate vicinity while in bear country is far more important than the firearm carried. Simply avoid them.

Bingo! For the last 20 years, I've lived on a major salmon river South Central Alaska where we see an occasional black or grizzly, and I've hunted and fished in areas where many bears were present, some within spitting distance. I've never had to pull a trigger in self defense, but have been comforted several times by the feel of my ever-present M1911 in hand with the white dot sights set squarely between the eyes of a bear a few feet from the muzzle. My set-up is similar to Larry's description above, a very comfortable Galco Miami Classic holster w/two 8 round mags, and 230 TC or 250gr RFN cast bullets loaded to modest velocity. I don't need a hand cannon, and don't feel under-gunned with a very familiar .45 ACP M1911 that I can unlimber in a split second and shoot accurately at bear defense distances.

FYI: My wife's "bear" gun is a SS Model 60 with a 3" barrel loaded with cast 180gr TCs at about 1000 fps.