Lee TL356-124-2R, not bad at all

[BC17A]

I'm surprised you didn't try Unique; maybe they don't have it where you live.

Wayne

I do have some Unique and it's on my list to test.

[jdgabbard]

Made it back to the range yesterday and had lots of loads to test. The carbine seems to prefer slower powders with the Lee boolits and velocities in the 1350 fps range. Didn't have one acceptable group using Bullseye, Green-Dot, Sport Pistol, Titegroup, Power Pistol or BE-86. Surprisingly the Blue-Dot loads that I didn't think would perform actually did extremely well. Going to try Longshot next time out.

If you have it on hand, might I suggest Red Dot. I have found it is my favorite powder for 9mm. 4.2gr with a 115 FMJ is my goto load for jacketed stuff in my AR. 4.0gr to 4.2gr works well in 9mm with the 358402 and MP357-125-HP. I've also had good luck with 4.5gr of Unique. Its a mild load, but it is pretty accurate in my guns. At least to what my eyes are capable of these days... I can't speak for the other powders you mentioned in 9mm, except for Bullseye. I didn't like it in 9mm, but I do like it in 380 and 38spl wadcutter loads. Thats about the only use for it I have these days. Most everything pistol I've moved to Unique and Red Dot with the exception of heavy loads in the 357mag, I still use 2400 for those. But I've been eyeing Ramshot powders, they look interesting to me. I'm probably going to pick up a few bottles to see how they do in various calibers.

[BC17A]

If you have it on hand, might I suggest Red Dot. I have found it is my favorite powder for 9mm. 4.2gr with a 115 FMJ is my goto load for jacketed stuff in my AR. 4.0gr to 4.2gr works well in 9mm with the 358402 and MP357-125-HP. I've also had good luck with 4.5gr of Unique. Its a mild load, but it is pretty accurate in my guns. At least to what my eyes are capable of these days... I can't speak for the other powders you mentioned in 9mm, except for Bullseye. I didn't like it in 9mm, but I do like it in 380 and 38spl wadcutter loads. Thats about the only use for it I have these days. Most everything pistol I've moved to Unique and Red Dot with the exception of heavy loads in the 357mag, I still use 2400 for those. But I've been eyeing Ramshot powders, they look interesting to me. I'm probably going to pick up a few bottles to see how they do in various calibers.

Yep, got Red-Dot and will give it a try along with Unique.

[armoredman]

So I made reference to two bullets in my post. You responded directly after my post. Please clarify which "these" you are referring to.

The Lee 124gr TL boolit. That was the very first one I cast, and still use the heck out of it today.

[BC17A]

Did some more testing today with Unique, Blue-dot, Red-dot and Longshot. Looks like slower powders are what the carbine likes. Red-dot performed like the rest of the fast powders did, not good at all. Unique and Longshot did real good so I'll be adding them to my go-to list with the carbine.

[mnewcomb59]

Looks good. I would pull a bullet and measure if you still have your starting size on the bottom of the base driving band. You might be swaging the bullets slightly by seating that deep. I would recommend to use a larger, longer expander on the cases if you aren't already. With the bullet seated deep in the case you could be getting odd headstamps that squish the base more than other brands.

4% antimony lead proved to be more accurate than 2% antimony. Both were water dropped after baking 415 for 25 minutes and the harder lead proved more accurate with that bullet for me in my rifle.

I would also recommend a few fire lapping shots to enlarge and lengthen your throat a bit. If the throat is contacting 115 fmj it might be shaving some powder coat off the bullets if they are obturating as they leave the case. You can check for rings of powder coat or lead with a pick in the chamber at the headspacing ledge.

One more edit: for fast powder I have only found accurate loads so far with American Select around 3.7-3.9 grains with the 124-TL-RN and a NOE 124 TC HP. 3.9 locks the slide back every time on my 5" M&P and 3.7 doesn't, but both function in the Camp 9. I tried Bullseye, Red Dot, Titegroup and Green Dot in 9mm throughout the years and they seem to make 2-3" at 50 yard ammo at best for me. This Camp 9 will shoot 10 GC 135 Ranch Dogs into an inch at 50 and I have a few plain base loads that will shoot 10 into 1.5 inches at 50, so 3" loads aren't very interesting to me.

[BC17A]

I've been using the NOE expander and brass used for this session was Winchester and Remington. Tomorrow I'll seat a few boolits then pull/measure. Also, I think I have some American Select buried in my powder cabinet so If I find it I will test it next time out.

[BC17A]

Looks good. I would pull a bullet and measure if you still have your starting size on the bottom of the base driving band. You might be swaging the bullets slightly by seating that deep. I would recommend to use a larger, longer expander on the cases if you aren't already. With the bullet seated deep in the case you could be getting odd headstamps that squish the base more than other brands.

Good call!

Seated a few in different headstamp brass today and they were indeed being swaged. The entire length was about .001" smaller and near the base about .002". So I made a new expander and increased the O.D. by .0015", both places, and also increased the length. Boolits seat easier, still have good tension and aren't being swaged any more. Guess I'll give all those fast powders another try.

NOE expander on top, and new one on bottom.

[mnewcomb59]

Good call!

Seated a few in different headstamp brass today and they were indeed being swaged. The entire length was about .001" smaller and near the base about .002". So I made a new expander and increased the O.D. by .0015", both places, and also increased the length. Boolits seat easier, still have good tension and aren't being swaged any more. Guess I'll give all those fast powders another try.

NOE expander on top, and new one on bottom.

Awesome! Except now your bad loads from before might not be so bad... Was it the load or was it a swaged bullet that opened the group? Oh no, now you are gonna be tossing and turning all night and not get any sleep.


I did the same thing, then had to go through and try some "bad" loads again. If you try any of them again, try some Power Pistol because it has proven to be great in my Marlin Camp 9.

[BC17A]

Retested several loads yesterday and the groups got tighter. Concluded the rifle still prefers medium to slower burning powders and I've probably found the rifles limit on accuracy. Next week I'm going to work-up some loads with lighter boolits, 105 SWC, 120TC and the 102 round nose.

[mnewcomb59]

Holy cow were you really getting about 100 fps per 0.1 grain of PP? You are loaded deeper than my loads but that seems like you are really building some pressure fast and you might be about maxed out. I have taken that bullet up to 6.3 gr PP but loaded out so the entire first driving band was outside the case. After seeing your velocity data there is no way I would go that high while seating as deep as you are.

The last thing I might try before you are convinced that is all the better the rifle will shoot (which looks pretty good!) is to harden the bullets a little bit. The base of the nose on that bullet is only about .33 cal, so it is unsupported by the lands. I was convinced that even though my softer bullets shot clean with no leading, the reason the harder bullets were more accurate because the unsupported nose stayed centered while the softer bullet's nose slumped towards one side of the barrel or the other. The 9mm has a super fast 10" twist and will stabilize a subsonic 300 grain bullet, so it has way more RPMs than is needed for stability and accuracy. The high RPMs cause the imperfect cast bullet (no bullet is perfect) to slump towards the heavier side of the nose as soon as it spins up to 130,000-160,000 RPM.

[BC17A]

I thought the same thing about being maxed out on PP. 5.4 is about where the velocity stops increasing. I picked up some 38 cal 125gn XTP's to try out next week. They're .357" in diameter and should be about as accurate as the rifle is capable of. Since Power Pistol seems to be the best, I'll be using it for the test.

[BC17A]

Holy cow were you really getting about 100 fps per 0.1 grain of PP? You are loaded deeper than my loads but that seems like you are really building some pressure fast and you might be about maxed out.

Went back to the range today and tested a few other boolits, and also re-tested the Power Pistol loads since they were questionable. Sure enough there must have been a glitch with the chrony last week. New velocities are more like where they should have been. 5.2gn was 1364fps avg, 5.3gn 1367fps avg, and 5.4 1374fps avg.

The 105SWC and 102RN showed promise but they didn't feed in the rifle very well. Jammed about every three rounds. The j-words showed what the rifle is capable of so I think you're right about hardening up my alloy a bit with the castings. Might give that a try or just have fun with where I'm at. Target was at 50 yards.

[la5676]

I’m going to go find this mold. At present I have the non-TL 2R mold . It feeds flawlessly in my Beretta, but I have to seat it way deeper for my son’s Glock 45. Holy cow, do they have tight chambers.

[jimlj]

BC17A, Thanks for the thread on this boolit. I have tried it with dismal results in my AR. Mine would shoot shotgun patterns at 25 yards. I admit to not being as diligent as you in your testing. You have inspired me to take a second look, this time with a few different powders. If I can get anywhere close to your groups, I'll definitely be using it again.

[armoredman]

I just loaded up another 50 of the 124gr Lee TL boollits a few hours ago, to kill some time. My 6 banger Lee drops 'em right quick and perfect.