Results of My Pedersoli 1874 Sharps 45-70

[indian joe]

KW
As for a .460 fitting a fired case from a Shiloh, that’s a loose chamber definitely very thin wall brass. Most Shiloh chambers in 45 run .482 at the mouth my old original Shiloh ran .480 and a .458 bullet was very tight .003 neck tension.

A .460 bullet has to be swaged down when it hits the grooves, this displaces lead to the rear causing base finning, seen plenty of examples of this at the mile target.


ok thats some of what I was lookin for - thanks - these discussions usually yield something of value even if its not what we set out to cover at the start.

base finning ? would a solid, neat fitting wad (I use HDPE) overcome the base finning ? or help to?

heres some numbers (might back up some of what you are saying - or not)

my pedersoli / uberti 45/75 is .485" neck - thats a go - nogo measure - dont see it as a problem because of the extra neck thickness of the brass I am working with. Shorter boolits I size .460 and run the loaded rounds through an outside swage die at .4845"

Loaded rounds for my Chiappa 1886 run .484" OD and chamber fine

so both of these are pointing directly at your oversize Italian chamber ? Both guns seem to like boolits .459 - .460 and neither will do well with a 458 boolit (different design though, my .458 is a CBE Postell = different nose profile than the Lyman and smaller lube grooves).

my Marcheno sharps Loaded rounds measure .480" OD and that is a neat deal

PS I was not saying a Pedersoli was better - but in the right hands might be almost as good ? - in most hands (bottom half or even two thirds of the leader board) the "hands" are gonna be the deciding factor as much as the equipment.

[Thundermaker]

You BPCR shooters sure are a humble lot.

1.36 inches is impressive. I'm still waiting on my Shiloh. Can't wait to dive into that project. Then I just have to figure out how to get everything safely to Wyoming.

[Randy Bohannon]

I was at Shiloh today and picked up my 1877 ,I am very pleased not many done in English Walnut.

[Don McDowell]

Oh my that's gorgeous.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Mine should be done any day.

KW

[Kenny Wasserburger]

KW
As for a .460 fitting a fired case from a Shiloh, that’s a loose chamber definitely very thin wall brass. Most Shiloh chambers in 45 run .482 at the mouth my old original Shiloh ran .480 and a .458 bullet was very tight .003 neck tension.

A .460 bullet has to be swaged down when it hits the grooves, this displaces lead to the rear causing base finning, seen plenty of examples of this at the mile target.


ok thats some of what I was lookin for - thanks - these discussions usually yield something of value even if its not what we set out to cover at the start.

base finning ? would a solid, neat fitting wad (I use HDPE) overcome the base finning ? or help to?

heres some numbers (might back up some of what you are saying - or not)

my pedersoli / uberti 45/75 is .485" neck - thats a go - nogo measure - dont see it as a problem because of the extra neck thickness of the brass I am working with. Shorter boolits I size .460 and run the loaded rounds through an outside swage die at .4845"

Loaded rounds for my Chiappa 1886 run .484" OD and chamber fine

so both of these are pointing directly at your oversize Italian chamber ? Both guns seem to like boolits .459 - .460 and neither will do well with a 458 boolit (different design though, my .458 is a CBE Postell = different nose profile than the Lyman and smaller lube grooves).

my Marcheno sharps Loaded rounds measure .480" OD and that is a neat deal

PS I was not saying a Pedersoli was better - but in the right hands might be almost as good ? - in most hands (bottom half or even two thirds of the leader board) the "hands" are gonna be the deciding factor as much as the equipment.

Joe, wad of at minimum of .060 is necessary to prevent base finning with a proper fitting bullet, the more generous the chamber size the more the bullet bumps up before entry into the rifling, thus exasperating the chance of base finning. The more the lead is displaced the more the chance of this.

KW

[indian joe]

Joe, wad of at minimum of .060 is necessary to prevent base finning with a proper fitting bullet, the more generous the chamber size the more the bullet bumps up before entry into the rifling, thus exasperating the chance of base finning. The more the lead is displaced the more the chance of this.

KW

thanks for the reply
can I check that finning issue shooting into a can of water at 100yards ? big water - soft container? or what works better?

doing 45 thou HDPE wads at present - can proly get to 60 thou - anymore would need two thinner ones and dont like the idea of that - cant find the LDPE commercially - plenty HDPE via salvage - (easy - chemical drums all sorts of places)

[indian joe]

The only reason I responded to this thread was when Joe said that the Shiloh boys would have to take a back seat and be quiet on this thread, because of your excellent groups.

KW

Nobody got mad and nobody got hurt - good job all around I reckon!

[martinibelgian]

I can only point you guys to the thread I posted on the Shiloh forum with pics of a groove-dia. PP bullet recuperated just about intact, showing no base finning at all.
http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29012. It did have a grease cookie between powder and bullet.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Bullet catch box, or a 1 mile target and recover the misses. To look at my bullets.
8 foot long and filled with oiled sawdust, works very well.
KW

[HWooldridge]

I bought a new Farmingdale rifle in 45-70 in 1981 that had a long freebore chamber. It shot jacketed bullets like a dream using smokeless but would not shoot well with any type of cast boolit I tried - either BP or smokeless, and it tore the paper from patched pills. Kirk offered to rebarrel it for me at half price but I finally sold off the rifle - I just didn't want to change the originality of the old girl. Might try to get another one at some point but I'm not a competitive shooter and only hunt with them.

[Gunlaker]

Competition shooters will gravitate towards what shoots best and wins, it’s a natural progression, nature of the beast. And human nature to do so.
KW

I think that sums it up. It's why I went with Shiloh and I am very glad I did. It is possible that if as many Pedersoli's entered long range matches that they'd do as well as the Shiloh's, but the most sure way to success is to see what the top shooters are doing and follow them up.

The people at Shiloh are also very supportive of the sport. That's worth a bunch in my book.

Chris.

[Randy Bohannon]

Amen Kenny and Chris, Shiloh makes the best 1874’s ever produced by anyone. They have built more 1874’s than anyone else on earth at any time,the Bryan’s have mastered the craft,I have one more on order before they retire .

[eastbank]

if you have to have a usa made sharps, order one and then go buy a pedersoli and while waiting for the rifle, use the pedersoli has a learning tool. get into reloading and the ins and out of shooting black powder and cast bullets, along with learning the sights and triggers. after your new rifle arrives, sell the pedersoli for maybe more that you paid for it, even if to break even or lose a little you will be ahead of the game.

[JKR]

if you have to have a usa made sharps, order one and then go buy a pedersoli and while waiting for the rifle, use the pedersoli has a learning tool. get into reloading and the ins and out of shooting black powder and cast bullets, along with learning the sights and triggers. after your new rifle arrives, sell the pedersoli for maybe more that you paid for it, even if to break even or lose a little you will be ahead of the game.

Great suggestion. Totally agree!
JKR

[Edward]

Great suggestion. Totally agree!
JKR

I'll 2nd That!!!/Ed

[barnabus]

I think the anti spaghetti rifle brigade are gonna have to sit this one out

I knew they would show up eventually! I guess they are like Harley owners,everything else is crap in their opinion.

[barnabus]

Kenny, I don't see anyone challenging the supremacy of Shilos in competitions. I don't mind my thread being hijacked to discuss the differences between rifle makers but I don't see anyone here writing that Pedersoli is better than American rifles and all the winning American rifles are flukes. I think if read the comments, people are stating the pesky facts that Pedersoli makes excellent barrels and can perform in the hands of a shooter. I think the only real opinion I have read is that if more competitors used Pedersoli, we might have seen some of those rifles make it to the medal stand.

it always turns into pedersoli bashing and then self-congratulating by one particular person. Happens every single time- all the time and it really gets old.

[Randy Bohannon]

Pedersoli makes decent off beat rifles with decent barrels ,crappy screws ,fake case hardening ,you have to buy what’s available with zero options and goofy forends. If that’s your desire have at it but do know that they are not true to the original rifles whereas Shilohs are . Pedersoli is a reasonable rifle with some detractions.

[Don McDowell]

Pedersoli makes a pretty decent rifle. There are darn few shooters that put in the time and effort to find what it takes to get the consistent x'ring accuracy it takes along with the dedicated practice to be a pest in the top contender list. Shiloh makes an excellent rifle beauty in fit and finish with arquably the finest bpcr barrels available. The price difference between them and the quality imports isn't large, the lag time between ordering and having the rifle is the only bugaboo to some, but the old adage about good things come to those who wait especially applies.
But then one has to wonder how many of those that don't like what Shiloh posters say will show at places like this to show those Sharps snobs just how wrong they are?https://azmuzzleloading.com/index.php/long-range/