mark lee rust blueing

[porthos]

i am going to blue a M-12 with mark lee rust blue. i have a note that on 9/29/2024 there is a thread about "tricks" using mark lee rust blue. can't find it anywhere. this is the "one day" rust blue. any help??

[Fishoot]

Here it is: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...+lee+rust+blue

I use the Mark Lee Rust Brown and then boil the parts for 15 minutes, then card. Let me know if you need more help.

[405grain]

Fishoot's the guy that taught me how to do this rust blue with the Mark Lee products. Use the "plum brown" not the rust blue. The rust blue leaves a thin blue with a hint of bronze color. This might suffice on small parts like safety thumb levers, screws, ejector housings, etc., but doesn't make a quality rust blue on actions or barrels. A rust blue using the browning solution creates a satin black bluing that's so nice that whenever I take a rifle blued this way to a public range it attracts the attention of other shooters which come over to admire and comment about it.

It is important that the parts be cleaned with hot soapy water to remove any trace of grease or oil. During the rust bluing process you should wear disposable rubber gloves as any fingerprints on the part will spoil the finish. When you apply the plum brown solution to the heated metal parts it will make them look like a rusty chunk of pipe from a 100 year old ship wreck. This is OK, it's supposed to look like that. When you immerse the parts into boiling water you will see the chemical reaction start taking place within a few seconds as the red rust converts to black. After boiling for half an hour, toss a handful of baking soda into the water to neutralize any acidity from the browning solution, then remove the parts and rinse off with water.

There is no reason to plug the ends of a barrel, like with traditional rust bluing, when doing this fast rust blue process. The part(s) can be immersed into boiling water as soon as the browning solution has finished being applied. Water that's boiling has driven all the dissolved oxygen out of it so that it's not chemically able to create rust. Once the part is removed from the boiling water it is so hot that even after being rinsed off it will dry in a minute or two, and no rust will form.

Coming out of the boiling water the part won't look very good. The surface will be a dull black with fine red rust powder collected in the nooks and cranny's. This red rust isn't a surface finish on the part, it's just super fine powder that was floating around in the boiling water, and is easily wiped off. When you buff the part with a fine carding wheel (I use my carding wheel with a drill press) the excellent blued surface will be exposed. Once you've finished buffing the surface with the carding wheel, give the part a light coating of oil and wipe it down with a rag.

Using this method I have been able to produce a very nice rust blued surface on receivers and barrels in about an hour.

[Snakeoil]

I just joined this forum today and this thread alone has made it worth my time. I watched my Dad do hot tank bluing when I was a kid using a Herter's kit. He had to use the BBQ as a heat source. I'd come to the conclusion that a good rust blue was no longer something I could do at home. I need to look deeper into this. but I'm really happy to see that somebody has made it possible. I've been thinking about building a High Wall and bluing the gun was the only issue for which I did not have a solution. The days of local shops doing bluing are over, at least around here. Thanks for posting this!

[405grain]

I've done a write up on how to do this on a different forum. I'll see if I can convert that info into a pdf. I'll post here to let people know when I've got that done, then they can PM me and I'll send them the pdf.

[porthos]

just got my carding wheel yesterday. will do blueing this coming week

[405grain]

Doing a convert from word isn't letting me import photos to pdf. I'm not going to spend the time trying to debug that, I'll just post the photos here and describe the action.

There are two different Mark Lee products; Express Brown and Express Blue. For doing a rust blue you need to use the Express Brown. Here's what happens when you use the express Blue. (please note that the rust bluing process is identical no matter which product you use, only the end results will be different) The first photo shows both the brown and blue solutions. In this tutorial I was "bluing" the bolt shroud on a color cased Mauser 93 action. I used the Express Blue for this.

The first thing that you need to do is completely clean and de-grease the part. Any oil, including finger prints, will spoil the finish on the blued part. To apply the solution you'll need to heat the part. Don't over heat the part - you don't want to draw the temper, just heat the part until the solution sizzles as it's being applied. I use a propane torch to heat the parts. The part only needs to be above the boiling temperature for the solution to work. You won't effect the parts temper until you start getting the temperature above 450 degrees, so there's a large margin for applying the solution. If the part is too large to cover it all at once (like a barrel or a receiver) it is OK to heat sections of it and apply solution a section at a time until it's completely covered. When you're done the part should look terrible. It should look like you've ruined it. Don't worry that's normal.

Next you need to prepare a container of boiling water that's large enough to submerge the part. Getting a pan of water boiling (especially if it's a long pan for a barrel) is the part of the process that takes the longest, so I generally light the fire under the tank when I start the bluing process. In these photographs I an using the express blue solution, not the Express Brown (like you're supposed to) I've poured some of the solution into a beaker, and dunked the heated bolt shroud into it. You can pour any unused solution right back into the original bottle; even if the solution becomes discolored it will still work correctly.

In this exercise the now treated bolt shroud looks dark. If I were using the Brown solution it would look like it was rusted. By now you should have your container of water up to a boil. Don't put your part into the water unless it's boiling. When water boils it drives all the oxygen out of solution. Water loves oxygen so much that fish are able to breathe under water. When you submerge your rust covered part into that boiling tank the oxygen starved water is going to start stealing oxygen atoms right off that rust, converting the red rust to more stable black rust. You'll see the reaction start to take place within a few seconds. leave the part in the boiling water until the reaction has had time to completely finish. This will take a minimum of 15 minutes, but I leave the part in for 30 minutes just to be sure.

While this reaction is taking place you want to have your part suspended in the water so that it's not touching any part of the tank. You don't need distilled water, ordinary tap water will do (unless some oil company is fraking right under your well) I don't know about the Express Blue (or the Express Brown for that matter) but lots of old time browning solutions contained mercury salts. Just like when you're melting a pot of lead, play it safe and don't breathe the fumes. Once the boiling has converted all the red rust to black I toss a handful of baking soda into the water. The fizz tells me that there was something acidic in that brown solution, and whatever it was I just neutralized it. Take the part out of the water and quickly rinse it off. Because it's hot, the part should dry quickly.

After the part has dried it should look a dull black with some dust from red rust coating it a little. The rust dust wipes off easily. Now set up your carding wheel. I use mine in a drill press, with the drill on the slowest setting. Buff the part and it will show you the smooth and shiny black of an excellent rust blue. On this particular part I used the Express Blue, and as you can see the finished part is actually a bronze color with bluish/purplish highlights. I did a floorplate and bolt shroud this way because they looked good on a color cased action. They would look "not right" on a receiver or a barrel. Inspite of what the label says, you want to use the brown solution to make a rust blue. Here's a photo of that bolt shroud with a pair of barrels that were blued using the "brown" solution

[HWooldridge]

Great info. Thank you!

[fragman]

I haven't used this particular product, but for when it comes to the 'boil' part of rust bluing long items like barrels, I steam it. Basically made a contraption out of a wallpaper stripper, a 5 gallon bucket and a length of that thick walled 4" PVC pipe. Works great

.

[2152hq]

I've used the MarkLee Express Blue for years. With proper techniques you can get a high polish blue. It takes practice. With Cold Rust Blue is also possible to achieve or keep high polish surfaces in tact and not always settle for the matted look associated with a rust blue.

I still use a tank with boiling water for that cycle but many seem to be going to the steam/tube method.
Whatever works for you.

Getting & keeping things clean and not contaminating surfaces, equipment, carding products/wheels, application brushes, ect,,.is the most important thing.
Good water if using a tank is probably next. Water w/minerals in it will not convert the rust properly and leave you with blotchy, poor work.
Sometimes you can use tap water,,many can't. Try it and see.
I collect the condensate water from the central AC over the summer and use that. Never a problem though I was told there would be.
40yrs of using it has told me it's OK. Before that it was rain/snow filtered water and the occasional need for real bottled water.

Here's some of my projects that were done with MarkLee's Express Rust Blue formula (not the Rust Brown formula).

[Old Two Wars]

Wow thats awesome ingraving

[ulav8r]

405grain, I got your post converted to a pdf. Let me know if you want a copy.

I could not attach it to this post on my first two tries. Rust Bluing by 405grain.pdf

PS 405grain, if you have any issues with this, I will delete it,

[ulav8r]

I've used the MarkLee Express Blue for years. With proper techniques you can get a high polish blue. It takes practice. With Cold Rust Blue is also possible to achieve or keep high polish surfaces in tact and not always settle for the matted look associated with a rust blue.

What are the proper techniques to use with the Express Blue?

[405grain]

ulav8r: I have no issues. Sharing information is what this site is all about.
2152hg: That's some beautiful bluing, and very fine craftsmanship. Please explain the "proper techniques", as I and others haven't had good results with the express blue.

[M-Tecs]

How do the Mark Lee products compare to hot bluing or traditional rust bluing for durability?

[405grain]

Hot bluing gives a blue/black color, and the surface finish (glossy or matte) depends on the finish (or polish) of the metal. A rust blue is black (no blue tones), and is usually more of a matte finish than a hot blue. Depending on the surface finish of the metal, a rust blue can be either a satin like matte finish, or (if the metal is a machined or course sanded surface) could look almost like a black Parkerized finish. Chemically there is no difference between a slow rust blue and the quicker process using the Mark Lee products. In the photo that I attached above comparing the small ring bolt shroud to a pair of barrels that I rust blued, the finish on the barrels is typical of the finish that's produced using the Express Brown with the quick rust blue process. Again, there is no difference in durability or finish between a fast or slow rust blue. The only thing that's changed is the amount of time and effort to get the bluing.

If you're experienced with processes like using Oxpho blue, note that both hot and rust blues are much more durable. I only use oxpho blue for touch up work, like erasing holster wear on revolver cylinders, or bluing screws and other small parts.

[WRideout]

Hot bluing gives a blue/black color, and the surface finish (glossy or matte) depends on the finish (or polish) of the metal. A rust blue is black (no blue tones), and is usually more of a matte finish than a hot blue. Depending on the surface finish of the metal, a rust blue can be either a satin like matte finish, or (if the metal is a machined or course sanded surface) could look almost like a black Parkerized finish. Chemically there is no difference between a slow rust blue and the quicker process using the Mark Lee products. In the photo that I attached above comparing the small ring bolt shroud to a pair of barrels that I rust blued, the finish on the barrels is typical of the finish that's produced using the Express Brown with the quick rust blue process. Again, there is no difference in durability or finish between a fast or slow rust blue. The only thing that's changed is the amount of time and effort to get the bluing.

If you're experienced with processes like using Oxpho blue, note that both hot and rust blues are much more durable. I only use oxpho blue for touch up work, like erasing holster wear on revolver cylinders, or bluing screws and other small parts.

On the recommendation of a friend, I used Mark Lee express blue on the steel frame of an 1851 Navy revolver I had bought as a kit. The only part to be blued was the steel frame, as the barrel and cylinder were already blued from the factory. The frame was a very rough casting. The brass grip frame only needed polishing.




The finish is matt black, as described above, but it is very durable, even when shooting black powder which is very corrosive. In the past I had used Birchwood Casey cold blue on a percussion derringer and found that it did not hold up, even under normal handling. I had tried to find Oxpho Blue when I was working on the Navy revolver, but now I am glad I couldn't find it anywhere.

Wayne

[quack1]

Wayne, nice job all around on that Navy. You're ready to move on and apply what you learned to the next job. The matt finish on the frame might be because it is a casting.

[porthos]

i finished the mod. 12 project and am very happy. will post photo's in a day or 2.

[WRideout]

Wayne, nice job all around on that Navy. You're ready to move on and apply what you learned to the next job. The matt finish on the frame might be because it is a casting.

I had a good instructor.

Wayne