.45 ACP Bullseye shooting powders

[Doughty]

Of late I have become interested in Bullseye shooting with the .45 ACP. It seems that slow, low pressure loads are the way to go. I have been using Alliant Bullseye powder, but a friend says that Winchester WST is what all the "cool kids" are using. My question is why? Is it better than Win 231? I've heard it is just a rebranded Winchester shotgun powder. Also that it "burns clean." Is it formulated to burn better at low pressure? Right now I can buy WST at our local Scheels, but can't find any Bullseye locally. Any thoughts, experience or speculations from the collective intelligence?

[Larry Gibson]

Bullseye has been the standard for a century. WST should also work well as does 231 and TightGroup. Doubt any "cool" factor makes any one better than the other. Doubt the "cool" ones can hold hard enough to tell the difference......

[Misery-Whip]

And I get the best accuracy using 800x over any of those. Just enough for reliable function. Its a pain to meter because the flakes are HUGE. I only keep a box loaded for those informal bragging rights.

I got a lb for free from a neighbor, he was going to try it, but after seeing those flakes sent it down the road. Only reason I tried it. Id have to get a charge dispenser to compete with 800x

Titegroup is my go to if I have it. Bullseye is 3rd choice.

My advice is to let your 45 decide what it likes.

[gunther]

If you ever stumble onto an estate sale, watch for DuPont 5066. It was the real deal in the 1950's. Bullseye was #2 by comparison.
A friend who has shot bullseye since the 1970's seems to look for easy metering, and low cost. If you're going to get serious, you will need a lot of practice. WST, is a shotgun powder, and is available in 8# jugs.

[schutzen-jager]

red dot worked for me -

[45DUDE]

A good 1911 isn't that picky on powders. -Bullseye-231-American Select-Titegroup-Red dot-Green dot-VN340-700x and several more will do great with 4.5 grains of powder with a flat base 180-200 grain boolit. When You can bench a 1 1/2''10 shot group at 25 yards you are ready for action. Bullseye is my first choice. American Select or Titegroup or N340 or 231 for second. You don't have to readjust the sights using 4.5 grains.

[ABJ]

As 45DUDE said most any powder in the Bullseye range will work. Bullseye is what I use but have have used Red and Green dot for excellent accuracy just a pain in powder measures. HP-38 works just takes a little more. Titegroup is about the same as bullseye, a tenth or two less than bullseye. As far as all the others go, I'm sure I could make them work given enough testing.
Bottom line shooting 200 grainers, if I can't find Bullseye, my second choice is Red Dot, Green Dot then titegroup. If you don't mind the flake powders I think Red and Green Dot is more accurate than Bullseye it just will not meter on my Dillon.
Tony

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Maybe AA#5.

DG

[Kosh75287]

Bullseye would be MY first choice, followed by Red Dot. I don't shoot Bullseye competition, but I worked up a mild load with PROMO, for a student, and it was a clover-leaf maker. IMR-700X WAS used a fair amount by some top-tier shooters, and probably still is. IMR PB was ALSO wonderful in this application, but good luck finding any, now.
W231/HP38 should have no trouble giving you very mild, tight-shooting loads. It is the only Winchester-brand propellant that I use with any regularity, and I tend to try using almost anything else, first.
GENERALLY SPEAKING, I'D say that, among the propellants with a burn-rate of Green Dot or faster, it will be far more difficult to find one that does NOT give you stellar accuracy than to find one that does.
Propellants with slower burning rates than, say, Green Dot won't NOT work, but are not well suited to delivering your desired performance (185 gr. -200 gr. @ 750 + 25 f/s) and burning cleanly. The result is smoky cases, unburned propellant in the works, and a firearm that gets dirty and unreliable before it need be. Propellants like Unique, Herco, BE-86 and AA#5 are superb propellants for factory-level and higher performance .45 ACP loads, smaller capacity higher-pressure rounds, and any of the original magnum revolver calibers. But they burn cleanest in loads developing ~18,000 p.s.i. and upward. Typical target .45 ACP loads tend to hover at 20% lower pressures and below.

[charlie b]

One of the great things about the .45acp is it performs well with a wide variety of powders. Back when I was young and didn't have much money I bought whatever powder that was on the shelf and cheap. Basically if I could find load data for it I'd use it. Most of the time one was as accurate as another, especially if I weighed my charges.

These days for pistols I use what meters well...most of the time. I still have a jug of 700-X and Blue Dot to use up No, I don't shoot pistol much these days. Hand tremors make it frustrating.

[Forrest r]

Any fast burning powder will work. Couldn't even begin to count how many rounds of the h&g 68/bullseye combo I've put down range in several 1911 45acp pistols. My latest 1911/45acp testing bullseye/h&g 68, 10-shot group @ 50ft.
[IMG][/IMG]

I used wst for awhile in the 45acp's and now I only use it for bullseye loads in a 9mm/1911 platform. Another 10-shot group @ 50ft using mp 125gr cast bullets and wst.
[IMG][/IMG]

Clays is a fantastic powder for 45acp/bullseye. Was playing around doing ladder tests with clays (4.ogr & 4.3gr) and 3 different cast 175gr to 200gr bullets in a nm 1911/45acp tested @ 50ft.
[IMG][/IMG]

Those were only 5-shot groups @ 50ft but all 3 bullets shot 1" or less 5-shot groups.
[IMG][/IMG]

Those 4.3gr loads of clays are easily repeatable and is now my favorite blammo ammo/practice ammo for the 1911. Kind of nice to use 1 powder charge and several different bullets that all have the same poa/poi and reasonable accuracy.

I only test @ 50ft simply because that's the distance I shoot bullseye at/reddots are set for.

If all you can find is wst right now, I wouldn't worry about it. Buy some and start ladder testing.

[Doughty]

So, nothing special about WST except that its the one that is locally available. Natchez has Bullseye at the same price as the local WST but shipping and hazmat for Bullseye makes the actual cost higher.

Went to the range yesterday. It had warmed up to in the 20s and no wind. So, some snow removal and I was ready to go. Lee #68 copy with 3.5 Bullseye and 4.2 WST. With my current level of skill, no significant difference. So, work on skills for about a month, have cataract surgery, wait some as it gets warmer, then see if I can tell the difference between powders. Want to try AA#2 also.

Thanks for all the replies.

[Bigslug]

ForrestR's pretty much nailed it - if you can get a consistent CLEAN burn, you're off and running. Getting a 1911 to shoot better than you can is NOT the hard part of the NRA Bullseye experience. If WST seems to be getting it done, it's available and gets you in the game.

Bullseye's my first choice by experience; Unique too slow and too dirty - especially with cast bullets using grease-based lube.

[44MAG#1]

My ex-shooting buddy was a high master class NRA Bullseye shooter.
He used Bullseye.
Nothing wrong with Bullseye.

[lx2008]

titegroup is all i use

[Outpost75]

WST is the modern replacement for 452AA, which was discontinued in 1991. Clean burning. Meters well for machine loading. Not "better" than Bullseye, but every bit as good. If your Star machine it set up to measure a safe charge with Bullseye you can refill with WST. No adjustment is needed.

[ChuckS1]

Bullseye is my number one choice. Clays is also good. Look at the thread I linked for more options.

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1209-...-from-the-past

[Alstep]

H&G 68 with 4.0 gr BE has worked well for me for years in all my 1911's.

[Doughty]

Thanks for all the replies. ChuckS1 I bookmarked that link. Yesterday I went back to Scheels looking for some powder for my sons new 6.5 PRC. While I was there I saw that they still had the WST @ $40/lb. Then I notice off to the side that they had some HP-38 @ $32/lb. Years ago when I still had pretty good eyes I shot quite a bit of Win 231 in the .45 acp at general purpose velocity levels. So I grabbed 4 lbs. In another deal I got 6 lbs of an 8 lb jug from a friend for $100. So, with the Bullseye I already had, and the WST I bought, I should be able to shoot enough to see if I can tell the difference between them. If not, I will have had fun trying.

PS: I just did a little math. If it was correct, I should have enough for over 26,000 rounds. Don't know if I can get in that much testing before the end of May when there is a match I'd like to shoot in.

[RCL]

I have been using WST in my 1911's for a few years now and really like it.
It seems to be readily available in my area.