Steel Shot and older guns?

[Krag 1901]

My nephew, who shoots Ducks told me the other day that his guns couldn't shoot steel shot. He inferred that steel shot would make his guns explode! I doubt any of his guns are older than ~1960's.

Is this a fact or is he misinformed, (probably very likely, knowing him).

He seemed to think that lead shot would deform in the barrel/choke and allow the shot to pass, but steel shot column would not deform so it would blow up his barrel! I don't see that that is possible as steel shot should flow around as easy as lead shot.

So who's correct ?

[M-Tecs]

He mostly is correct. It will not blow the barrel up but it can damage the chokes on older guns. For this purpose older is about pre-1980 however Remington says that all of their barrels made after 1950 are steel shot compatible if they are choked modified or more open. So, by that standard, the full choked barrel would not be steel shot compatible.

https://www.browning.com/support/faq...teel-shot.html

https://waterfowlchoke.com/5-reasons...20the%20barrel.

https://chuckhawks.com/steel_shot.htm

https://www.fieldandstream.com/guns/...tguns-approved

[Minerat]

I won't shoot steel in any of my old full chock guns. Only modified or IC if in a screw in chock gun. When steel first came into use Winchester warned against using it in the older guns or any with a tighter choke the modified. My experience is that a modified with steel shot is equal to a full with lead.

[Polymath]

Depend on the choke. Most guys who shoot steel tend to go for Improved or modified chokes. So with my full choke Win 1200 the choke starts about 2" back from the muzzle. I only shoot lead in it. What I think he is concerned about is called bridging where two pellets get up side by side and block(bridge) the choke. Lead will give a little, but steel won't.
Shooting steel needs to have larger ball size to achieve the same lethality as lead. So if you shoot ducks (long ago)with #4 lead, you would need a #2 steel to meet the need. You may get away with shooting steel in a full choke a few times or the very next shell may split the muzzle. I don't take the chance.

[Krag 1901]

Interesting. I would not have thought it true so I asked the 'experts' here. I don't shoot shotguns much any more, after my Trap days.

[BLAHUT]

Steel won't blow up the barrel, will just ruin a tighter choke, full or extra full will be recked, modified might pass, cylinder will work, when buying a used shot gun, a dime held in the end of the barrel on edge and rotated will show if the barrel is egg shaped, if full choked..

[megasupermagnum]

One thing you will find is that 10 people will have shot a particular old gun without any problems, and then 1 will have a bulged choke. What was the difference? It's hard to say with all the variables. Older guns tend to have softer steel, tighter chokes, and thinner barrels, but there are a ton of exceptions to that. The best example I have is a Remington 1148 which is a 1950's gun. The barrel on that is paper thin, thinner than anything you will find today. The full choke barrel was fired with steel shot, and while it is perfectly shootable, but the damage to the forcing cone is there, and the choke was bulged. I cut it off and turned it into a slug barrel.

The other thing might be the ammo. If all you are shooting is 1 1/8oz #3 steel at 1300 fps, it's not nearly as tough on barrels as a 1 1/4 oz 1600 fps BB steel load. My opinion is I will not shoot steel shot in any shotgun pre 1991, unless I'm not that concerned with it. If it's a dirt cheap bolt, or an H&R single shot, I don't worry. Most will say don't shoot steel through a choke tighter than modified. Again, I would only do that if the barrel was reasonably thick. I also have a 1940's era Savage 430 O/U, and the OD of those barrels are the same as the OD of a modern choke tube. That's how thin they are. I would never shoot steel shot in that gun.

No, steel shot is not dangerous to a shooter. No, it does not flow as easy as lead. It is the hardest thing you can shoot in your barrel. Slugs are easier on barrels than steel shot. Large steel shot can bridge and damage even modern shotguns. That's why you almost never see sizes bigger than BBB in 12 gauge, T in 10 gauge, and #2 in 20 gauge anymore.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I just cut an 30" FC A5 barrel to 20" with the intention of having Rem Chokes installed. Rude awakening when we found out the wall thickness was not enough to thread. So now I have a 20" A5 barrel that is "Skeet" choked at .725 ID.

I have no reservations about running Steel Shot thru this barrel as there is no constriction, the barrel was bored tight to begin with so it is .725 the full length. Kind of bummed I didn't get my Choke Tubes as the Rifled one was my main reason for doing this. I needed .860 OD to have sufficient wall thickness to do the Rem Chokes. Existing OD is .810 so the walls would collapse when bored for the Choke Tubes.

For what I use the gun for it will work, just not as well as I had hoped.

As far as the steel shot issue the problem arises when there is an abrupt choke like a Full or more that tries to squeeze the payload down. Steel won't compress or distort like lead does so it wants to beat it's way thru in which case the barrel must distort so as to accommodate the solid plug being forced thru.

Newer barrels are made of stronger steel and can take it . Also newer Choke Profiles are not as abrupt as older ones.

Randy

[M-Tecs]

I just cut an 30" FC A5 barrel to 20" with the intention of having Rem Chokes installed. Rude awakening when we found out the wall thickness was not enough to thread. So now I have a 20" A5 barrel that is "Skeet" choked at .725 ID.

I have no reservations about running Steel Shot thru this barrel as there is no constriction, the barrel was bored tight to begin with so it is .725 the full length. Kind of bummed I didn't get my Choke tubes as the Rifled one was my main reason for doing this. I needed .860 to have sufficient wall thickness to do the Rem Chokes. OD is .810 so the walls would collapse when bored for the choke tubes.

For what I use the gun for it will work, just not as well as I had hoped.

Randy

It's more work but thin-walled barrels can be swaged up for choke tubes. It was very common at one time. Stan Baker did one for me in the mid 80's by belling out the last couple inches of the barrel and threading it for his custom Winchoke threaded chokes.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was looking at Silver Soldering a Sleeve onto the barrel and threading that but trying to get the entrance to the choke tube directly on the end of the barrel was going to be hit and miss.

How do you contact Stan Baker? I'd like to talk to him?

Randy

[M-Tecs]

Stan Baker passed about a dozen years ago. If I remember correctly Brownell's sold the expansion tooling to do that type of choke. Give them a call. They might still have instructions or advise. I've never did one myself but if I remember correctly the expansion tool looked like a tapered expansion lathe mandrel.

Stan Baker was the primary force behind the back bore trend.

Briley currently has the market cornered on thin wall choke tubes. They might be worth calling.

[BLAHUT]

My nephew, who shoots Ducks told me the other day that his guns couldn't shoot steel shot. He inferred that steel shot would make his guns explode! I doubt any of his guns are older than ~1960's.

Is this a fact or is he misinformed, (probably very likely, knowing him).

He seemed to think that lead shot would deform in the barrel/choke and allow the shot to pass, but steel shot column would not deform so it would blow up his barrel! I don't see that that is possible as steel shot should flow around as easy as lead shot.

So who's correct ?

He wants to stay with an older shot gun ? He can use bismuth, almost the same weight as lead, same shot size as lead for ducks of geese, or if there is enough steel in the end of his barrel, he can have screw in chokes installed ??

[Minerat]

Check with Arts Gun Shop. They do everything A5

https://artsgunshop.com/

[Adam Helmer]

I just bought a run-of-the mill pump 12 gauge to shoot steel shells. I will never shoot steel out of my beloved Belgian Sweet 16, my old Winchester 101 or my Browning O/U.

Adam

[Milky Duck]

if you obey a couple of rules you should be fine..
#1 keep the payload down to or below 1 1/8th oz the 30-32grn loadings kill ducks n geese just fine
#2 keep the shot size down to #3 or below...now for us down unders thats 2 shot sizes below #BB the old std shell in lead days was a 1 1/4oz load of #4 shot..pretty sure your lot call that a #5
the theory behind those two rules is the shot bunches up at the choke and can "bridge" and cause a bulge.... basically a bottleneck/trafficjam where pellats all bunch up and cant squeaze out together,lead would deform,steel doesnt so it has to wiggle itself around smaller shot and lighter payload gives it the room to do so.
for what its worth I will use this combo happily in a full choked bakail .

[Golfswithwolves]

I can't see adequate reason to want to shoot steel (or even harder) shot in older shotguns. These were built with the intention of shooting lead shot, so for me bismuth ammo is the way to go when lead is not allowed. If a hunter can't bear the thought of spending for the cost of bismuth then I reckon he should trade off the classic shotgun for a modern hi-tech contraption with a heavy enough barrel to handle the steel rounds.

[Johnch]

I bought a Winchester 97 about 20 years ago from a Uncle
He about gave it to me as I was the only one in the family that hunted

It needed a LOT of cleaning
But I noticed a ever so slight ring bulge in the barrel where I figured the choke would have started
Took the 97 to a gunsmith and he took one look at the barrel and told me someone had been shooting steel shot in it
He checked and I now had a Modified choked 30" Win 97
He also told me the barrel was OK to shoot

But several years ago I sold it to a cowboy action shooter

Hated to , but sometime I do a little safe cleaning
As some times I really don't need or want a gun

John

[pietro]

some times I really don't need or want a gun

John

Repent, oh ye sinner ! !

[Texas by God]

Is the fine for using lead shot less than a box of Bismuth shotshells???
Asking for a friend


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dogrunner]

Dumb question but just how does an enforcement officer determine if bismuth is in fact what's in your reloads?