Advice needed.. Cast boolit for muzzy

[gareth96]

I've been using a smokeless muzzleloader with 300gr Speer bullets (.458) for years, but they are getting harder and harder to find. These bullets have been good out to 200yds before they drop below the 1000ftlbs of energy I like for a humane kill on whitetail. I cast for .45/9mm/.380 right now.. So question #1 is... If I used a 300gr boolit mold with wheel weights, would that give me good expansion at around 1200fps downrange (~1850 muzzle)?

#2.. which 300gr mold? I'll be using a sabot, so I assume a gas check isn't needed..

Thanks!

[mnewcomb59]

I have tried 4 cast bullets in sabots and by far they most accurate was a gas check bullet with no gas check installed. I think the plain base, sharp 90 degree corner at the bottom of a cast bullet doesn't fit the small radius in the bottom of the sabots but the gas check shank seats all the way to the bottom.

I have the Lee 300-Rf and a 350 grain Mountain Molds that take a gc and both are very accurate in a sabot. Easily 1" at 50 yards while the plain base are more like 3-4".

For alloy I would recommend softer than WW if you want expansion at 200 yards/1200 fps. Keep in mind the meat damage you might see with close shots if you are set up for expansion at 1200 fps and you hit a deer at 1600-1700 fps. I nearly ruined the front half of a deer last year on a 15 yard behind the shoulder shot. It bruised the backstraps 6" away from the bullet path and it bruised both shoulders. It left a 16" circle of bruising the size of a large pizza on the ribcage and the deer still ran more than 100 yards. I used this same boolit from my 45 colt rifle out of a medium hardness alloy (12 BHN 2-2-96) for 3-4 deer before I used the soft lead in the muzzleloader.

Same bullet at the same speed but the muzzleloader expands an inch wide up close and dumps 1700 foot pounds in the first foot of penetration while the harder bullet (70 cal expansion vs 1 inch) uses the same 1700 foot pounds in twice the distance and makes a wound half as wide but twice as deep. You might be able to get expansion at 200 yards but you might be ruining deer at 50 yards. Keep in mind there is no controlled expansion with a cast bullet and your 50 yard shot will expand much wider and penetrate much less than your 200 yard shot. With an expanding cast bullet, your terminal performance will change with your velocity from explosive with shallow penetration up close, to a balance of expansion and penetration at some middle range, then change to a higher penetration, lower expansion as velocity bleeds off. If you are set up for expansion at 1200 fps and you hit a deer at 1700 fps it will be like a bomb went off.

In my pistol caliber rifles I use two different alloys because one alloy expands too much up close and the other doesn't expand at all past 75 yards. With 2-2-96 and 1.5-1.5-97 I can bake the powder coat at 415 degrees for a half hour and either air cool or water drop for about a 3 BHN difference. Both alloys are accurate and I sight in for the softer alloy for long range and swap in the WD bullets as needed for deer drives or ambush hunting in a blind in the woods. Both will mushroom and keep great weight retention and penetration in their 300-400 fps performance window.

[gareth96]

A lot of good info there, thank you! It looks like the Lee 300-rf is a .452".. I guess I could always buy new .452" sabots, but I pretty much bought a lifetime supply of .458" sabots last time I ordered. However, I think your point about the gas checked bullets fitting better will still apply. I do have some pure lead I could mix into the wheel weights. I haven't gotten very scientificery about how to mix in the other alloys in my casting or figuring BHN yet. I guess I could also try for 2 different BHNs since I either hunt woods, or field.. and load appropriately.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

My 2¢
I would blend your COWW 50-50 with your Near Pure lead and cast some with the Lee 457-340-F and use your 458 sabots.

https://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-457-340-f.html

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I have tried 4 cast bullets in sabots and by far they most accurate was a gas check bullet with no gas check installed. I think the plain base, sharp 90 degree corner at the bottom of a cast bullet doesn't fit the small radius in the bottom of the sabots but the gas check shank seats all the way to the bottom.

>>>SNIP

One thing to try, would be a plain base boolit that was cast from a very hot mold, so the boolit is quite frosty. That generally makes the sharp edges of a boolit a more of a rounded radius, while still uniform in every other way. This also produces a boolit that is slightly smaller (like 0.0005" ,,,but this is alloy dependent), I use this technique for one GC style mold that casts a wee bit large and this technique allows for easier installation of the GC.

[Larry Gibson]

My 2¢
I would blend your COWW 50-50 with your Near Pure lead and cast some with the Lee 457-340-F and use your 458 sabots.

https://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-457-340-f.html

Concur on softening the COWWs or better yet, IMHO, would be a 16-1 binary alloy.

I suggest the RCBS 45-30-FN (it is GC'd) cast of 16-1 alloy. I push that bullet to 2000 fps cast of 16-1 out of my 450-40-70 {Siamese M98 action barreled to long throated 45-70]. with excellent results. If I was using sabots in lieu of Maxi-Balls in my 50 cal TC Blk Mtn Magnum that would be my saboted bullet of choice since i have already tested it to 1800+ fps in the ML rifle.

[Midohhntr]

I'm doing the same, purchased a Lee 452-300 rf mold to try in the Savage muzzleloader. Tried the 452-255 rf with mediocre results. The 300g is the gas-check design and fits in the sabot better and i have various sabot's to try. If they don't work out I'll use the boolit in my Henry rifle. I figure the cost of the mold is worth it compared to what some ML boolits with sabot's cost now a days.

[gareth96]

Mine's a Savage ML10-II.. So nothing over 300gr is 'recommended'. So looking for a .458" 300gr..

[Larry Gibson]

Mine's a Savage ML10-II.. So nothing over 300gr is 'recommended'. So looking for a .458" 300gr..

The RCBS 45-300-FN is a .458 bullet, not a .452 bullet.

[honus]

I sometimes dream of finding a barrel in .458" with a 1/18 twist for my 54 cal. T/C Renegade, just so I could use the Lee 457-340 grain Lee or the Lyman 457122.

[gareth96]

Had some time to look around.. Thinking of either the RCBS 45-300-FN or the NOE HTC459-300-RF-CB5 4 Cavity with GC.. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I won't need a top punch if I'm using the Lee classic sizer (use a single stage press to push bullet up through sizer)? ... added.. or an Accurate mould, they have a few 300ish gr choices.