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Thread: 8mm Mauser brass formed from 30-06

  1. #21
    Boolit Master



    TNsailorman's Avatar
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    I had 2 of the 24/47 Yugo mausers that had been rearsenaled but never isssued. Brand new barrels and they were chambered very tight. Brass sized with Lee full length dies would not let the bolt close all the way without excessive force. But my Redding dies would. Also a set of RCBS dies would. Rather than ruin a good set of 8mm dies by trimming, I sold the Lee set and never looked back. The Lee dies would chamber in the German 98's made during the war without any problems. I know as I and my Dad both had 1 each of them of those mausers. my experience anyway, james

  2. #22
    Boolit Master TurnipEaterDown's Avatar
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    Here is a Very cheap & Fast way to get the shoulder to bump back a few thousandths more than the die bottomed on the shellholder will allow -- Faster, as it requires No die part modifications:

    Shellholders almost always have clearance to the rim. Use this to your advantage.
    Cut a piece of paper out of a target. Trim this in width to the rim diameter in question. Somewhat round off the end of the strip of paper. When sizing, slip this piece of paper into the shellholder, and then insert the case, keeping the paper between the case head and shellholder. Resize case. You will get a few thousandths shoulder bump. The primer being forced from the case by decapping pin will punch through the paper strip.

    I did this A Lot for a slightly short chamber "throw together" gun I used to have. Sure the paper compresses, and the strip has to be periodically renewed, but there isn't much of a cheaper or quicker way to do this.

    If the shoulder is back enough from the chamber to make easy chambering of a round, and not excessive space, on a good bolt gun usually there isn't enough "spring" in the action compared to the elastic relaxation of the brass after firing, to make chambering a problem for a number of reloads.

    Quickie fix that works often.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurnipEaterDown View Post
    Here is a Very cheap & Fast way to get the shoulder to bump back a few thousandths more than the die bottomed on the shellholder will allow -- Faster, as it requires No die part modifications:

    Shellholders almost always have clearance to the rim. Use this to your advantage.
    Cut a piece of paper out of a target. Trim this in width to the rim diameter in question. Somewhat round off the end of the strip of paper. When sizing, slip this piece of paper into the shellholder, and then insert the case, keeping the paper between the case head and shellholder. Resize case. You will get a few thousandths shoulder bump. The primer being forced from the case by decapping pin will punch through the paper strip.

    I did this A Lot for a slightly short chamber "throw together" gun I used to have. Sure the paper compresses, and the strip has to be periodically renewed, but there isn't much of a cheaper or quicker way to do this.

    If the shoulder is back enough from the chamber to make easy chambering of a round, and not excessive space, on a good bolt gun usually there isn't enough "spring" in the action compared to the elastic relaxation of the brass after firing, to make chambering a problem for a number of reloads.

    Quickie fix that works often.
    Silly Me...I deprime separately anyway, so I have cut more than a couple "ends" from cheap feeler gauges...

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Good point. I have used paper, leftover shim stock and .006" pop-can aluminum for that purpose.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master



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    I personally don't like to jury rig things, especially something that will create headspace problems. While the method being talked about; using shims; might not create a real danger it is putting added stress on the case. And the case will have to be "fireformed" to have a proper case with the correct headspace. That is one less loading before failure. I was always taught to "do it right the first time". That meant changing to a die that will adjust to set the proper headspace. I have a Forster headspace/case length die that measures both for short or long for both headspace or case length. If it meets both measurements, it will chamber in any mauser made with a proper chamber job. Even the 2 Yugo's that I mentioned. Both were dead minimum on the headspace but anything that would fit the gage would fit in the chamber with no problem. Why the Lee would not adjust to fit a proper dimension, I do not know except that I hope that it was just a unusal case. By the way, the shell holder was a Lee also, which makes me even more curious. Since I had both a RCBS and Redding dies that would adjust correctly, I sent the Lee set down the road. I have supplied a bunch of 8mm mausers with brass converted from 25-06, .270 Win., .280 Rem., and 30-06 and they all fit the gage to a tee. For myself and others. I also tried them in the Yugo's for fit, each and every one. If it fit the Yugo's it would certainly fit in a Mod 98 which usually are chambered a little on the long side. I have shot a lot of mausers over the years with versions from the pre WW II versions to late war versions and even a couple produced by France on German machinery in Germany after the war using parts left over from the Germans. They outfitted their German border guards and French Foreign Legion with them but never let them into France. Being forbidden by French law from doing so. Those are the SVW coded mausers and rarely seen these days and some of the best mausers I have ever had the pleasure of shooting. Very well put together. But as my Dad use to say, there is more than one way to skin a cat. my experience anyway, james

  6. #26
    Boolit Master TurnipEaterDown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNsailorman View Post
    I personally don't like to jury rig things, especially something that will create headspace problems. While the method being talked about; using shims; might not create a real danger it is putting added stress on the case. And the case will have to be "fireformed" to have a proper case with the correct headspace. ...
    Not true.
    The point was being made that to get another 0.002-0.004" bump more than the dies will give, insert some paper. This is to correct for a die set too long for the chamber in question.
    I have had to load for factory name brand guns that are short in HS compared to the die set, and this is a very quick & easy fix. Whether the die or chamber, it did not matter. FL resize in die would not chamber.

    Sizing in such a manner induces absolutely no undue stress in the case. The shoulder is set back to match the chamber minus 0.001 - 0.002. Not to create slop. This will never require fireforming if used correctly.

    It is no different than searching for a shorter shellholder or trimming the die. Simply quicker.

    If you believe that brass sized 0.002" short of a minimum chamber is dangerous, I really suggest that factory new bulk brass, or factory loaded ammunition, is acquired by yourself and measured at the datum.
    Cartridges Must fit minimum chambers, and factory new brass will be several thousandths short of chamber minimum. Mostly this is about manufacturing tolerance and 100% functionality.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurnipEaterDown View Post
    Not true.
    The point was being made that to get another 0.002-0.004" bump more than the dies will give, insert some paper. This is to correct for a die set too long for the chamber in question.
    I have had to load for factory name brand guns that are short in HS compared to the die set, and this is a very quick & easy fix. Whether the die or chamber, it did not matter. FL resize in die would not chamber.

    Sizing in such a manner induces absolutely no undue stress in the case. The shoulder is set back to match the chamber minus 0.001 - 0.002. Not to create slop. This will never require fireforming if used correctly.

    It is no different than searching for a shorter shellholder or trimming the die. Simply quicker.

    If you believe that brass sized 0.002" short of a minimum chamber is dangerous, I really suggest that factory new bulk brass, or factory loaded ammunition, is acquired by yourself and measured at the datum.
    Cartridges Must fit minimum chambers, and factory new brass will be several thousandths short of chamber minimum. Mostly this is about manufacturing tolerance and 100% functionality.
    What was just said is basically that...All factory fresh brass is , out of necessity, inside, or minimum dimension of tolerance!
    Probably the reason one rifle chamber will produce more FPS from a Given loading than another.. If one chamber is all the way on the Minimum of tolerance, and another is all the way on the Maximum side of tolerance.. Available case volume is that much expanded or reduced.. and full length resizing is a Must in order for the brass fired from a Maximum chamber to Fit into the chamber of the Minimum sized chamber.. Improper reloading???= the beginnings of Problems!! The act of pushing the shoulder Back on every reloading, will result, eventually, in case head separation.. Tho this is Not a Pressure catastrophe (it can be a Gas release catastrophe)... it should be avoided.. I truly believe that the reloaded cartridge should fit the Individual Chamber as close to Perfect as possible.. even if that is slightly outside of Tolerance.. it is Safer.

    Edited; due to poor choice of terminology
    Last edited by racepres; 03-11-2023 at 08:00 AM.

  8. #28
    Boolit Mold
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    You do have to remember that shoulder and case walls are thicker than the neck, so converting .30-06 to 8x57 mm leaves the neck of the new case potentially much thicker than a normal neck. That can cause bullet release issues and high pressures.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    One time we had a 280 Rem that would not chamber the resized brass the was shot from the same gun. Factory ammo and measured the brass every way I could think. That paper idea would have been a good fast way to get a few thousands of space that may have been needed. Not every chamber is 100 % the same. Not every chamber not being the same is a bad thing it all okay if with in the allowed differences that is the way it works. That's why some neck size and some FL resize. It's all how it works out. Too each his own.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy (punchie) View Post
    One time we had a 280 Rem that would not chamber the resized brass the was shot from the same gun. Factory ammo and measured the brass every way I could think. That paper idea would have been a good fast way to get a few thousands of space that may have been needed. Not every chamber is 100 % the same. Not every chamber not being the same is a bad thing it all okay if with in the allowed differences that is the way it works. That's why some neck size and some FL resize. It's all how it works out. Too each his own.
    That bis very strange...unless the 280 in question was an Auto or Pump..
    Quote Originally Posted by DocDoc View Post
    You do have to remember that shoulder and case walls are thicker than the neck, so converting .30-06 to 8x57 mm leaves the neck of the new case potentially much thicker than a normal neck. That can cause bullet release issues and high pressures.
    another good reason to Fire Form.. most old Mauser chambers will release even a slightly over size cast boolit, as the chambers seem generous... But.. not all the same.. If a ready to load projectile will enter the case mouth of Fired brass, it is good... Note; I have learned that some crimp can remain on Fired Case mouths...so running ever so slightly into something abrupt, like the Lee tapered universal expander allows accuracy for such a test..
    I do all that because too thin of a Neck, will split early..

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    [QUOTE=racepres;5553774]That bis very strange...unless the 280 in question was an Auto or Pump..

    280 Rem. was a bolt gun we racked our brains trying to figure it out. We thought It should have been fine just to neck size, reload and shoot. He sold that gun off to a dealer. That was when the 280 was the new (old ) gun to have.

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I scored a used RCBS 8mm trim die. Works great.
    I use Federal brass for resizing. If it says Federal, it's trimmed brass for the 8mm.

    Shiloh
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  13. #33
    Boolit Bub
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    I finally got a set of RCBS dies to try. I resized the previously reformed 30 06 brass and was able to fit into a Vet bring back K98 Mauser and a K98 Mitchell Mauser but unable to chamber in unknown model Mauser. The unknown model was sold by GPC ( Numrich ) . Looks like maybe a model 48A by pictures I have seen. Looks unfired and factory surplus ammo chambers but with reformed brass the bolt handle won't turn. Maybe a short chamber. The brass I used was Greek HXP that now has a ring in the neck from the 30 06 shoulder. Looks like it won't cause any problems loading just cosmetic. Should I worry about using this brass? This brass was originally formed with Lee dies and wouldn't chamber in any of the rifles. I wonder if I had used the RCBS dies first it would of made the ring in the neck. Has anyone found any Military brass that doesn't leave a ring in the neck after forming? I say Military brass cause it isn't head stamped with a caliber. This ammo is for my grandson so I didn't want him to be confused by 30 06 head stamp 8mm ammo. Sorry for all the questions.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNDBGGR1484 View Post
    I finally got a set of RCBS dies to try. I resized the previously reformed 30 06 brass and was able to fit into a Vet bring back K98 Mauser and a K98 Mitchell Mauser but unable to chamber in unknown model Mauser. The unknown model was sold by GPC ( Numrich ) . Looks like maybe a model 48A by pictures I have seen. Looks unfired and factory surplus ammo chambers but with reformed brass the bolt handle won't turn. Maybe a short chamber. The brass I used was Greek HXP that now has a ring in the neck from the 30 06 shoulder. Looks like it won't cause any problems loading just cosmetic. Should I worry about using this brass? This brass was originally formed with Lee dies and wouldn't chamber in any of the rifles. I wonder if I had used the RCBS dies first it would of made the ring in the neck. Has anyone found any Military brass that doesn't leave a ring in the neck after forming? I say Military brass cause it isn't head stamped with a caliber. This ammo is for my grandson so I didn't want him to be confused by 30 06 head stamp 8mm ammo. Sorry for all the questions.
    Lake City 43 is working very well for me, No Rings, but, I don't see if that will hurt anything, long as Not a thin nor thick spot, If it is... I would turn the necks... .. I always start by resizing with a Small Base '06 die... then FL with an 8mm without decapping stem.
    Then cut off most of the excess neck with a tubing cutter... run over the decapping stem (after neck clean-up) to get neck uniform...then trim with the good ole Lee System, or the Lyman sometimes. Use M die, then Load and Shoot, for fireform, (boolit jammed into rifling fairly hard). Yes I probably take too many steps... But, My success rate is so very good...not gonna change. My Brass is intended for the Individual Rifle I am loading for, Only. I have One really nice Mauser that gets the precious few headstamped, 8X57 's that I have. Just happens to be an M48
    Last edited by racepres; 03-29-2023 at 10:20 AM.

  15. #35
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    Could the bulge be causing the problem with not chambering?
    You might try taking the decapping rod with the expander button out of the die and resize the case. Then try it in the rifle to see if it will chamber. If it will, then the problem is with the thicker brass from the 06 shoulder being pushed up into the new neck of the 8mm.
    Just to double check, reinstall the decapping rod and expander button, then run the case through again and see if it won't chamber.
    The sizing die forms the case to fit the chamber and the expander button comes back up through the neck to provide clearance for the bullet. This is the dreaded "Doughnut" at the base of the new neck that will need to be turned down.
    Some milsurp chambers are a little oversized, so the "Doughnut" doesn't interfere with the fit.

    I use Milsurp 06 brass for my 9.3x57 cast loads, but I turn the necks to get rid of the bulge/doughnut.

    I hope this makes sense...

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Can you please describe the "ring" referred to? I am assuming we are not talking about the dreaded donut that sometimes occurs in similar circumstances.
    R.D.M.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by lar45 View Post
    Could the bulge be causing the problem with not chambering?
    You might try taking the decapping rod with the expander button out of the die and resize the case. Then try it in the rifle to see if it will chamber. If it will, then the problem is with the thicker brass from the 06 shoulder being pushed up into the new neck of the 8mm.
    Just to double check, reinstall the decapping rod and expander button, then run the case through again and see if it won't chamber.
    The sizing die forms the case to fit the chamber and the expander button comes back up through the neck to provide clearance for the bullet. This is the dreaded "Doughnut" at the base of the new neck that will need to be turned down.
    Some milsurp chambers are a little oversized, so the "Doughnut" doesn't interfere with the fit.

    I use Milsurp 06 brass for my 9.3x57 cast loads, but I turn the necks to get rid of the bulge/doughnut.

    I hope this makes sense...
    This... Makes lots of sense

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackthorn View Post
    Can you please describe the "ring" referred to? I am assuming we are not talking about the dreaded donut that sometimes occurs in similar circumstances.
    "the ring" is a line (not a ring/bulge) in the neck below the mouth from where the crease used to be in the 30-06. it is harmless and not always present

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoline one View Post
    "the ring" is a line (not a ring/bulge) in the neck below the mouth from where the crease used to be in the 30-06. it is harmless and not always present
    Thanks.
    R.D.M.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Back in the day I formed a lot of 8x57 the same way out of milsurp 30-06 cases. Somewhere along the way I picked up an 8x57 form die which I used to initially form 8x57, 7.65 Argentine, 7x57 and 6.5x55. The formed cases in that die (necks cut off with fine hack saw) were then perfect for FL sizing with case headspace adjusted for a slight crush fit in the intended rifle. A chamber cast to get the actual neck length and a final trim always produced excellent cases. I found if i annealed the shoulder necks of the harder milsurp '06 cases after the initial form they didn't need another annealing and formed with less wrinkles in the shoulder neck area. I'm still using many of them formed years ago today.
    This is how I do it. I will also anneal them after the first firing.
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