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Thread: 9mm cartridge OAL

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    "0.017" is okay? That's more variation than I'D want. That's awfully close to the "0.02" change that SPEER wrote about. Granted that 93Bandit's load IS 6 - 6.5% under max., but the Speer example's load only generated 29,000 p.s.i., before things went wrong with the seating depth.
    If the OP has a chronograph, I advise him to run 10 - 12 of the reloads with the longest o.a.l. through it & calculate the average velocity & standard deviation. ALSO, take note of the fired primers vs. some fired factory rounds. Repeat this process with with 10 - 12 of the reloads that are shorter by 0.017". If the shorter rounds don't give velocities expected of a .38 Super, and the primers don't look appreciably flatter than on the factory rounds, you MAY be alright. But the real answer is to do whatever must be done to keep o.a.l. at some prudent length, + 0.005"(or SMALLER).
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC17A View Post
    .017" variation?, that's more like it. What boolit are you casting? Doesn't sound unusual if you're using the shake/bake PC method since it causes more lumps and bumps when baked. What powder and charge weight are you loading with? .012" deeper seating depth won't increase pressure enough to worry about unless you're already at max with a very fast burning powder.
    I'm using a Lee 356-125-2R mould, and so far the boolits are dropping around 130-133gn. I am using the shake n bake method to PC so I do understand there will be some variation. I'm using Sport Pistol, 3.9gn. The max charge for this load is 4.2gn.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kosh75287 View Post
    "0.017" is okay? That's more variation than I'D want. That's awfully close to the "0.02" change that SPEER wrote about. Granted that 93Bandit's load IS 6 - 6.5% under max., but the Speer example's load only generated 29,000 p.s.i., before things went wrong with the seating depth.
    If the OP has a chronograph, I advise him to run 10 - 12 of the reloads with the longest o.a.l. through it & calculate the average velocity & standard deviation. ALSO, take note of the fired primers vs. some fired factory rounds. Repeat this process with with 10 - 12 of the reloads that are shorter by 0.017". If the shorter rounds don't give velocities expected of a .38 Super, and the primers don't look appreciably flatter than on the factory rounds, you MAY be alright. But the real answer is to do whatever must be done to keep o.a.l. at some prudent length, + 0.005"(or SMALLER).
    Unfortunately I don't have a chronograph. I plan to pull all the bullets that came in under the OAL just to be safe.

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy BC17A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Bandit View Post
    I'm using a Lee 356-125-2R mould, and so far the boolits are dropping around 130-133gn. I am using the shake n bake method to PC so I do understand there will be some variation. I'm using Sport Pistol, 3.9gn. The max charge for this load is 4.2gn.

    Absolutely nothing to worry about, send it!

    Until you perfect your PC methods you'll see those variations in OAL, especially with certain seating stems. Some are worse than others. What may help is to use an "M" type expander die if you're not using one already. The "M" expander will allow your boolit to start straight and take less force to seat so instead of having to use a round nose seater you can use a flat seater which will give you much more consistent OAL's.

    Now about that boolit. I've worked up many loads with that same boolit using more than a few different powders, including Sport Pistol. One of my go-to plinking loads using the 356-125-2R (sized to .357") with Sport Pistol is 4 grains @1.070" OAL. From a 5" 1911 that load averages only 1054fps. Hardly a high pressure load.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC17A View Post
    Absolutely nothing to worry about, send it!

    Until you perfect your PC methods you'll see those variations in OAL, especially with certain seating stems. Some are worse than others. What may help is to use an "M" type expander die if you're not using one already. The "M" expander will allow your boolit to start straight and take less force to seat so instead of having to use a round nose seater you can use a flat seater which will give you much more consistent OAL's.

    Now about that boolit. I've worked up many loads with that same boolit using more than a few different powders, including Sport Pistol. One of my go-to plinking loads using the 356-125-2R (sized to .357") with Sport Pistol is 4 grains @1.070" OAL. From a 5" 1911 that load averages only 1054fps. Hardly a high pressure load.
    Wow, thanks for the info! I've almost finished pulling all the boolits under 1.12 OAL, guess I didn't need to? Oh well, wasn't too many.

    I'm glad to know someone else is using this boolit. I wasn't sure when I ordered the mould. I ordered it and started casting before I joined this forum. Have you used titegroup with this boolit? Found a local guy selling some for a decent price and thought I might get some to try

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Bandit View Post
    Unfortunately I don't have a chronograph. I plan to pull all the bullets that came in under the OAL just to be safe.
    Not req'd for 0.020" diff unless your loads were at max, you wont see much diff. Look at 0.020" on your calipers. That is a thick business card worth, not going to cause issues.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
    Not req'd for 0.020" diff unless your loads were at max, you wont see much diff. Look at 0.020" on your calipers. That is a thick business card worth, not going to cause issues.
    I didn't think it would make too much of a difference, but some seemed concerned... However I don't blame them, always a good idea to be cautious.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy BC17A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Bandit View Post
    Wow, thanks for the info! I've almost finished pulling all the boolits under 1.12 OAL, guess I didn't need to? Oh well, wasn't too many.

    I'm glad to know someone else is using this boolit. I wasn't sure when I ordered the mould. I ordered it and started casting before I joined this forum. Have you used titegroup with this boolit? Found a local guy selling some for a decent price and thought I might get some to try

    Titegroup is a great powder for 9mm. It's one of my favorites with the Lee 120TC boolit. Try it, you'll like it,

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC17A View Post
    Titegroup is a great powder for 9mm. It's one of my favorites with the Lee 120TC boolit. Try it, you'll like it,
    I'll have to try it then. Might need to try that mould as well.

  10. #30
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    I have that same mold. I cast and load for a sa-35 9mm with it. I experienced some inconsistencies seating initially due to th seating stem engraving. Using a flat stem tightened things up. For the ones already sealed too deep: put them in an inertia puller. Tap them out far enough to reseat to your desired OAL with the flat stem in your seating die.
    Willie

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
    I have that same mold. I cast and load for a sa-35 9mm with it. I experienced some inconsistencies seating initially due to th seating stem engraving. Using a flat stem tightened things up. For the ones already sealed too deep: put them in an inertia puller. Tap them out far enough to reseat to your desired OAL with the flat stem in your seating die.
    Willie
    Where does one obtain a flat stem? I've thought about filling the engraving on mine with some epoxy to flatten it. Is this a bad idea?

    I have an inertia puller and used it to pull all the bullets completely. I didn't even think about just tapping it to pull them out enough to reseat. I'll have to keep that in mind for next time.

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Bandit View Post
    Where does one obtain a flat stem? I've thought about filling the engraving on mine with some epoxy to flatten it. Is this a bad idea?

    I have an inertia puller and used it to pull all the bullets completely. I didn't even think about just tapping it to pull them out enough to reseat. I'll have to keep that in mind for next time.
    Depends on your dies, many companies offer diff seating stem profile. JB weld your own is perfectly fine.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93Bandit View Post
    Where does one obtain a flat stem? I've thought about filling the engraving on mine with some epoxy to flatten it. Is this a bad idea?

    I have an inertia puller and used it to pull all the bullets completely. I didn't even think about just tapping it to pull them out enough to reseat. I'll have to keep that in mind for next time.
    My dies are Redding. I was able to buy one from them that fit perfectly.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
    Depends on your dies, many companies offer diff seating stem profile. JB weld your own is perfectly fine.
    My 9mm die set is the Hornady taper crimp. They come with a beveled seating stem and a flat one. Like billmc2 said, most companies offer different seating stems. Contact the company that made your seating die.

  15. #35
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    Get yourself a mold for a flat nose bullet and use a flat seating punch.
    Simplify and move on.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check