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Thread: Size of animal to size of projectile

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I just shoot and see what they do. You can only test in water and gel so much before you have to do the real thing. In all my time hunting I'm convinced of two things when it comes to calibers and hunting.

    #1, Most people haven't the foggiest clue what their bullet does. A shocking number of people can't even tell you where they hit the deer beyond "hit hard", or "in the chest".

    #2, Animals are not bulletproof in the slightest.

    I'm not going to say you should use the absolute minimum it takes, but I think most people would be surprised how well even a 380 acp could do. What I will say is almost every discussion you see about such things either involves calibers so many times more powerful than required, and/or something to the effect of "in case of a bad shot". I don't believe there is really such a thing as overkill, and I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of bad shots.

    As for 357 magnum, it really depends on the person. Some people are not happy unless they are shooting high velocity rounds like a 300 win mag, and hitting them with light bullets that are nasty on impact. Something like that will drop a deer in its tracks most of the time. If that isn't something you want, then a 357 magnum does not lack much. Bullet selection is not that important, although I wouldn't mess with the super light bullets. Most anything 140 to 200+ grains is going to do you just fine. Even hollow points are going to pass through most of the time on most animals. No it isn't going to turn organs to jelly, but it will punch a good 1/2" or bigger hole through there.

  2. #22
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    Im gong to have 4, perhaps 5 spikes this next firearms season similar to that pistol kill you show.

    Ive been thinking about a .357 magnum for a while, but hasnt been able to figure out what to get. Revolver, lever carbine, single shot, or bolt action. Ive also not even been able to figure out if i want a 4 or 6" barrel if i go with a revolver because Ive seen published velocities from actual gun magazines where the 4" barrel can get 158 to 170 grains into the 12-1300 fps range.

    My muzzleloader can toss them to 1700 according to load data charts, so its all pretty similar territory and i know the muzzleloader CAN do a nice big 200# buck. But actually holding a 158 grain bullet in my hand at the "sporting goods store" causes some sort of size shock where it all seems doubtful it can do it.

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master


    missionary5155's Avatar
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    Bullet placement yes !
    Years ago an old deer hunter said if you want to shoot whitetails with a revolver use a soft cast slug that weights a grain of lead for each pound your target may be. This was before the 43 and 41 mag. The 45 Colt revolvers were the big revolvers. Not many .357,s were being carried in the field.
    So if all you have are 100 pounders, a 100 grainer placed well is going to work well. 200 pound max deer well I am loading at least a 200 grain.
    East ILL-Nois corn fed are 250 and huger. I have seen a gutted buck that topped a 275 pound scale. So we load 300 FN grainers cast Soft.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by BandeauRouge View Post
    6" revolver

    My thing has been that the .223 was popularized by people in florida hunting sub 100 pound deer, and didnt transfer well to large size deer unless you had tracking downs and fenced in 70 acres.

    I was thinking something of the heavier bullets as sold by matts bullets,
    Quote Originally Posted by BandeauRouge View Post
    But actually holding a 158 grain bullet in my hand at the "sporting goods store" causes some sort of size shock where it all seems doubtful it can do it.
    An understanding of bullet construction might help you out some. I "contracted" a buddy in Texas to snuff a large boar with the Barnes 5.56 NATO 62 grain TSX (expanding solid copper) and he didn't disappoint. Perfect four-petal mushroom that penetrated something between 18 and 24 inches of quartering-away chest cavity, popping the heart and coming to rest against the hide at the far shoulder. Not what you should expect of a frangible varmint bullet or the tumbling M193 of Vietnam, but a major shift in capability with a simple change of bullet.

    Provided weight and speed stay the same, you can expect a traditional expanding bullet to penetrate only a third to half of what a solid will. Consider:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's the same bullet from the same mold with the same load, the only difference being the alloy. .32 caliber, 130 grains, 1250fps, nine milk jugs for the hard alloy, but only three to stop the soft one.

    ALSO:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A 135 grain 9mm of hard alloy at 1030 fps ALMOST making it into a tenth milk jug. Had the same result with a similar profile 230 grain .45 at GI hardball speed of 830 fps.

    My point being that you won't need Wile E. Coyote's ACME anvil to dispatch a deer - certainly not a small one.
    Last edited by Bigslug; 01-31-2023 at 10:03 PM.

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    I am a handgun hunter.
    I started out with .357 and eventually went to the .44
    I never had a problem with either round. I didn't like the fact that every one of them that wasnt shot in the head or neck ran. Guess I am lazy. Went to the .475 Linebaugh. I download the 400 gr slug to 1100 fps. I've yet to have a deer take a step with it. Its cuts off their light switch. Load is light for the gun, but does the trick.

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy
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    In my neck of woods, a 50/75 yd shot in the timber, Im guessing accounts for 90% of whitetail kills. General wisdom of the old hunters when I was kid in the 60's was a 30-30 with a 150 soft point was mim. Then some of the younger adults in the late 60's was stacking them up with 243/100 grainers. I say all this to illustrate its not just the weight. It's weight/speed and bullet construction with proper placement. I have killed deer with 45 cal roundballs, 243,30-06,30-30 among many others. My favorite is a 200 grain cast 35 Remington launched at 1850. The ones I killed with a 45-70/300 grain at 1200 as well as a 44 mag handgun 240 at around a 1000 died just as quick.
    So a 357/158fn connecting hide at 1400 or so wouldn't bother me a bit. I don't have a load book in front of me but in a rifle and with a gascheck you should be able to get well above that without much work. If I had the option I would prefer something in the 170 range but if 158 is all I had, I wouldn't blink twice.
    Tony
    after reading my response I seen that I didn't answer your question completely. As far size of deer I do not alter my bullet weight. The difference in our small deer to large deer is not that great. Obviously I go loaded for a big brut and I tend to lean towards heavy for caliber in the woods.
    Last edited by ABJ; 02-01-2023 at 09:56 AM.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Our deer are not very big - 150-175 pounds is a large specimen. We have always had good luck with most anything in the .30 caliber range - from .30-30 to .30-06, but I have seen a lot of animals lost with a .243 or .223. I realize anything can be killed with a .22 LR rimfire and there are exceptions to every rule, but my personal opinion is that deer shouldn't be shot with anything under .25 caliber. One of my sons has a pre-64 M70 in .25-06 and it is a deer killing machine, then I bought a 7mm-08 a few years ago and it has never failed to anchor any size deer, DRT, not even one step...YMMV. That being said, anything in the .30 and larger range should do a good job if the hunter makes a good shot.

    About forty years ago, I accepted a dare to shoot offhand at a house sparrow with a 45-70 Sharps, using a 500 gr bullet. It was perched on a branch about 25 yards away and the only thing we found was one lonely feather, spinning to the ground - that was a clear case of overkill.
    Last edited by HWooldridge; 02-01-2023 at 10:18 AM.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    77/357 using MP 360640 penta HP 50/50 ww & pure powder coated with a stiff load of IMR 4227 has killed several Midwest bucks at under 75 yds. for me. I have also had great luck with the Ranchdog Lee mould gas checked 50/50 lubed with lee alox and Accurate No. 9.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    I chose Lyman #375296, 283 grains between 2100-2200 feet per second muzzle velocity to give a flat 200 yards shooting. Close shots very destructive so choose the shots accordingly. At extreme range much less expansion so choose the shots accordingly. In other words, know your piece.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check