Perfect boolit?

[charlie b]

Some people do. I don't since the bullet condition is easy to see as I am casting and I can adjust tempo to adjust as I go.

Why water drop? I just use an alloy that is the hardness I want. Rifles are Lyman #2. Back when I cast a lot of pistol bullets I used straight COWW.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

Do you repeat the process of weight sorting after lubing/powder coating, and gas check installation prior to loading? Just curious in my strive to continue learning.

Slim

No.

With my match bullets I seat the GCs separately using the Lyman tool on the 450. Then I only lube the bullets in an H&I die of the same diameter as the as cast diameter. With my 30 XCBs which drop at .3105 for example, I lbne them in a .312 H&I die [ H&I dies most often ar .0015 t0 .002 under the specified size to account for alloy spring back] which also crimps the Hornady GC on the shank. Those bullets are then good to go in my Match 308W. If used in the 30x60 XCB rifle, I will push through size [honed out Lee sizer] to .310.

[Larry Gibson]

Does anybody measure the temperature of the mold while casting?
*
Can water dropping cause deformation or imbalance? I imagine the area that hits the water first might contract.

I use a large older galvanized mop bucket filled about 2/3 with tap water. I have not found any deformation from Water Quenching.

When casting my match level bullet, 30 XCB, 311466 and 314299, I just use the one mould (all are 4 cavity moulds). Thus, I maintain an even alloy temp and adjust my casting tempo (cadence if you will). I've not bothered with mould temp or using a hot plate for many years as I found having something else to pay attention to other than casting was distracting, and consistency suffered. When I cast such bullets I just cast bullets and do not sort or get distracted otherwise. I most often cast 550 - 700 at one session.

[Larry Gibson]

Some people do. I don't since the bullet condition is easy to see as I am casting and I can adjust tempo to adjust as I go.

Why water drop? I just use an alloy that is the hardness I want. Rifles are Lyman #2. Back when I cast a lot of pistol bullets I used straight COWW.

Because I push my 30 XCBs pretty hard at 50,000 +/- psi the extra hardness is proven to help them withstand that level of acceleration. With my match 30 XCBs, 311466s and 314299s WQing will bring the #2 alloy up to linotypes BHN without the attendant excess antimony and brittleness of linotype. The harder WQ'd bullets have proven to give better accuracy.

Having one BHN of a particular bullet for all my applications is a lot easier than having several different "lots" of different BHNs.

[Winger Ed.]

Can water dropping cause deformation or imbalance? I imagine the area that hits the water first might contract.

Over the years, there has been several fads come and go.
In years past-- there was a dry spell where the latest and greatest magnum hadn't come out,
so in the mean time, everybody went all ga-ga over cryogenically treating their barrels.

Then after that passed, you had to molly coat everything.
Cast, jacketed, it didn't matter, they all had to be molly coated.
In your spare time, you also could stress out over the 'damage' shooting uncoated bullets did to the bore.

A while later,,,,, you had to temper or case harden your boolits.
For that, you'd take all the boolits you'd cast, put one in a oven, raise the temp. slowly until it 'slumped'.
Then lower the temp about 50-60 degrees, put them in the oven and cook 'em.
After the magic amount of time, you dumped them all into a bucket of cold water.

Somebody figured out, you could get to the same place by dropping them straight out of your mold into a bucket of cold water.
I do it that way and have a towel on the bottom. After it gets covered, I pull it up and lay it back down over whatever is in there.
I'm not too worried and split hairs over how hard they are, it's just easy and handy for me to do it that way.
If I'd had any deform when they hit--- I can't see good enough to tell.
If any got out of round- I figure the sizing die can fix that.

Now days, while we're waiting for the newest-- latest and greatest magnum--
we have to be content with the current fad of powder coating.

[M-Tecs]

When casting my match level bullet, 30 XCB, 311466 and 314299, I just use the one mould (all are 4 cavity moulds). Thus, I maintain an even alloy temp and adjust my casting tempo (cadence if you will). .

Just asking for clarification. You are only using one 4 cavity mold to control cadence but you are filling all 4 cavities?

[GregLaROCHE]

Why are you sizing to 309? Have you slugged the bore? I would think that an old Mauser might like a boolit a little fatter.

[Larry Gibson]

Just asking for clarification. You are only using one 4 cavity mold to control cadence but you are filling all 4 cavities?

Yes, just one mould and filling all 4 cavities. I let the alloy roil back up out of each cavity before moving to the next and I leave a very generous sprue. The mould is then set on an old M60 barrel changing glove where i watch the sprue harden. When it just turns that dull look it is just right to cut the sprue off. The bucket of water is low to my left and I then tap the handle nut to open the blocks probably 1 - 1/2' over the water. The blocks are closed, the sprue plate closed, the sprue put back into the Mag20 and the mould is filled again.

BTW; the Mag20 mould guide is adjusted so the spout is about 1/2" above the sprue plate. The alloy flow is adjusted through the pot full of alloy [lows less as the pot empties due to less pressure]. I open the stop to increase flow as the pot empties maintaining an even floe throughout the session.

[Larry Gibson]

Ed

I knew about WQing back in the '60s or early '70s from an article in a magazine about a fellow who demonstrated MGs for sale. He was using cast bullet loads for such casting them of WWs. Was a simple way of heat treating them.

I doubt heat treating cast bullets by WQ or an oven is any more of a fad than is smokeless powder to a BP aficionado....

[OS OK]

...Now days, while we're waiting for the newest-- latest and greatest magnum--
we have to be content with the current fad of powder coating.

Could 'trend' be a better word in your comment about 'the current fad'?

I think PC'ing our casts has been pretty much established now as a fine jacket for the cast round...I think it's here to stay.

[charlie b]

Most of what we do now we tried back 50 years ago. Even things similar to powder coating. Back then we tried molly coating, electroplating, baked epoxy coating, teflon, etc. etc. I wish there had been powder coat paints in the mainstream back then. It just turns out to have the perfect cure temp for lead alloys.

[405grain]

There's another factor that hasn't been discussed. Nueces5 didn't say what velocity he was shooting his loads at. The #311466 has a blunter nose than the #314299, with a correspondingly lower ballistic coefficient. He says that he's getting good accuracy out to 600 yards, but after that the accuracy falls off. This could be that his bullets are going through the transonic zone at this range. When a bullet is traveling at supersonic speeds it's pushing the air ahead of it in a compressed shockwave. In this situation the bullet is basically traveling in a near vacuum. As the velocity of the bullet slows to below the speed of sound this shockwave collapses on the bullet, which can cause buffeting and instability. Further, while supersonic the bullet was not only traveling down range in a pocket of near vacuum, but it was also spinning like a top with almost no resistance. As soon as the shockwave collapses on the bullet the drag from the air will impact on the bullets rotation.

What this means is that if a bullet is traveling at supersonic speeds during it's whole flight it can remain stable. If a bullet is traveling below the speed of sound during it's whole flight it will also remain stable. However, if a bullet transitions from supersonic to subsonic during it's flight its stability might get compromised. Check the ballistic coefficient of your bullet, and the velocity that you're shooting it at, against a ballistics table and see where it's dropping below the speed of sound. If that's at around 600 yards it might indicate what's going on. If this is the case, either try increasing the velocity (which might introduce a whole other set of problems), or try shooting a bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient.

All this aside, for best accuracy you want to make the best quality bullets that you can cast.

[nueces5]

There's another factor that hasn't been discussed. Nueces5 didn't say what velocity he was shooting his loads at. The #311466 has a blunter nose than the #314299, with a correspondingly lower ballistic coefficient. He says that he's getting good accuracy out to 600 yards, but after that the accuracy falls off. This could be that his bullets are going through the transonic zone at this range. When a bullet is traveling at supersonic speeds it's pushing the air ahead of it in a compressed shockwave. In this situation the bullet is basically traveling in a near vacuum. As the velocity of the bullet slows to below the speed of sound this shockwave collapses on the bullet, which can cause buffeting and instability. Further, while supersonic the bullet was not only traveling down range in a pocket of near vacuum, but it was also spinning like a top with almost no resistance. As soon as the shockwave collapses on the bullet the drag from the air will impact on the bullets rotation.

What this means is that if a bullet is traveling at supersonic speeds during it's whole flight it can remain stable. If a bullet is traveling below the speed of sound during it's whole flight it will also remain stable. However, if a bullet transitions from supersonic to subsonic during it's flight its stability might get compromised. Check the ballistic coefficient of your bullet, and the velocity that you're shooting it at, against a ballistics table and see where it's dropping below the speed of sound. If that's at around 600 yards it might indicate what's going on. If this is the case, either try increasing the velocity (which might introduce a whole other set of problems), or try shooting a bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient.

All this aside, for best accuracy you want to make the best quality bullets that you can cast.

What you say is very good, and although you can work on the transonic, the idea of increasing the weight of the boolit a bit so as not to go so high with speed...
The boolit I used (311466) with my alloy weighs about 146 grains, and I push it at 2600 fps with relatively good accuracy, that's just over 500m.
So the plan is to try other boolits (170 and 190 grains) to go a little further.

[405grain]

The Lyman #311466 is listed in the ballistic charts in the back of the 3rd edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, but their data only goes up to 2300 fps. The bullet has a ballistic coefficient of .250. At 2300 fps it will transition from sonic to subsonic at just over 500 yards. I would suspect that with your 2600 fps loads your bullets should remain supersonic for longer. Passing through the transonic zone may be whats causing your accuracy to drop off after 600 yards. I suggest that you try the #314299 and see if you get better results.

I've been shooting 7.65x53 using a sporterized 1908 Brazilian Mauser action and a brand new, but surplus, 1909 Argentine barrel. I've had my best results shooting the Lyman # 311284 that was designed for the 30-40 Krag. I powder coat this bullet, then size it to .312" diameter. I've been using a charge of 24.0 grains of Shooter's World Buffalo Rifle (very similar to 5744). This gives me right around 1900 fps with that long barrel. This has been a very accurate load for me, but I've only shot it out to 200 yards.

[nueces5]

It is good to know that the 311284 is accurate in the 1909 Mauser barrel, I have this same rifle.
A couple of years ago that mold happened near me, and as always when opportunities appear, I had my money destined for other more urgent things.
Anyway, it is very interesting to share your experience, I also coat with pc, then I gascheck and coat again, then I lubricate and sizing
i use orange magic, i have not had good luck with my homemade lubes

there is a page where you can get ballistic tables, which I don't know if they are very precise, but at least it brings us closer to what happens in the range

https://shooterscalculator.com/balli...tory-chart.php