P17 Eddystone sporter project

[lar45]

The Problem with the Eddystone is that the forging operators turned the temp up on the ovens so they could skip several steps in the forging process and just stamp them out quicker.
With the Billets being held at a higher temperature for long periods of time, the steel underwent a process that turned it brittle. I don't know what the serial number ranges are, but that's why they were able to turn out more rifles than the Remington plant in the same amount of time.
The actions can let go if chambered in higher pressure cartridges. I'm trying to remember the source for this info, but I've got a serious case of CRS at the moment.
Maybe this will jog someone elses memory that knows more detail on the subject.

[racepres]

The Problem with the Eddystone is that the forging operators turned the temp up on the ovens so they could skip several steps in the forging process and just stamp them out quicker.
With the Billets being held at a higher temperature for long periods of time, the steel underwent a process that turned it brittle. I don't know what the serial number ranges are, but that's why they were able to turn out more rifles than the Remington plant in the same amount of time.
The actions can let go if chambered in higher pressure cartridges. I'm trying to remember the source for this info, but I've got a serious case of CRS at the moment.
Maybe this will jog someone elses memory that knows more detail on the subject.

So...You or a relative?? or someone close to you was There???

[Der Gebirgsjager]

https://www.remingtonsocie Delaware,...-of-eddystone/

Good article. Thanks for posting it.

DG

[john.k]

The Eddystones that crack are the late ones with parkerizing ......back in the day ,Accurate Welding always had a bundle of M17 recievers for TIG welding......in those days a TIG was actually Helium -Arc.....heli-arc....and Accurates machine was the size of a big refrigerator.......anyhoo ,they would weld the cracks in the ring,and chase the thread ......the cracks were not large ,seldom more than 1/2 " long.

[15meter]

If you decide that it is a strong and safe action, it would be a shame to not chamber it in a real magnum length caliber. You can put 300 Win Mags in a Remington 700 or a Savage 110. A classic full length magnum will never fit.

I've got a Sporterized Remington in 300 H&H, is it collectible? No. Will it increase in value? No. Is it a hoot to shoot with cast boolits? Yes!







I bought this 2 years ago, I had the dies, the brass but no 300 H&H. Then this popped up. My guess was this was some guy's dream rifle, couldn't afford an English whomper so had a local gunsmith build one for him. Probably in the 50's-60's time frame. Hope he got to take it on his dream moose hunt.

Go big or go home

[muskeg13]

The Problem with the Eddystone is that the forging operators turned the temp up on the ovens so they could skip several steps in the forging process and just stamp them out quicker.
With the Billets being held at a higher temperature for long periods of time, the steel underwent a process that turned it brittle. I don't know what the serial number ranges are, but that's why they were able to turn out more rifles than the Remington plant in the same amount of time.
The actions can let go if chambered in higher pressure cartridges. I'm trying to remember the source for this info, but I've got a serious case of CRS at the moment.
Maybe this will jog someone elses memory that knows more detail on the subject.

I believe the allegations regarding Eddystone (or any) P14 or M1917 are unsubstantiated, but conflate several well-known manufacturing defects discovered in U.S. Government produced M1903 Springfield and Rock Island Arsenal rifles that led to burst barrels and blown receivers. Nearly all of the M1903 failures were attributed to burnt steel barrel blanks or improperly heat-treated carbon steel receivers.

These M1903, again not P14 or M1917, problems were rectified in steps adopted over several years. First, proof round pressure was increased from 70,000psi to 75,000psi to “weed out” defective barrels and receivers. A modified heat treatment process was adopted and pyrometers were installed to accurately control receiver heat, replacing Government arsenal furnace men eyeballing forging temperatures. Nickel steel for receivers, like was always used in P14 and M1917 production, was phased in during 1918 at Rock Island Arsenal but not until 1927 at Springfield Arsenal. The final corrective measure was to withdraw from service all low serial numbered M1903s with carbon steel receivers. Re-heat treatment was attempted, but the results were inconsistent. The suspect rifles were Springfield 1903s below 800,000 and those from Rock Island below 285,507.

Weak barrels and receivers due to poor manufacturing processes were characteristic of the beloved and slowly produced Government arsenal M1903, not the private industry contracted P14/M1917s produced in phenomenal numbers in record time. Perhaps the Remington-Eddystone plant out-produced the Remington-Ilion plant because it was newer and used newer more efficient equipment.



Hatcher’s Notebook, Maj.Gen. Julian S. Hatcher, Stackpole Books ©1947
Chapter VIII, The Strength of Military Rifles
p.199-201. “Another trouble that was experienced after World War 1 was burnt steel. Before the war, billets of steel were rolled into barrel blanks a Springfield Armory. But during the production rush of 1917 and 1918 outside sources were called on to do this work, and the blanks were bought from steel makers already forged to shape.

[lar45]

Well... if I was misinformed, I stand corrected. I read this all of this a couple of decades ago when I built a 30-378wby on a M1917.
While in Engineering school, one of my metallurgy classes touched on the subject t of heat embrittlement. I discussed the Eddystone situation with the professor who said he was familiar with the story.

[lar45]

I have a Winchester action that went through our shop fire that is probably soft.
Isn't there supposed to be a place in Utah that does re-heat treating of rifle actions?

[Rich/WIS]

Interesting posts, just a few months ago was in the LGS and they had one that had been re-chambered to 308 Norma. Guy I knew in the Army many years ago was building a 375 H&H on a 1917 action. Not sure about the Winchesters not going overseas for PR reasons, read somewhere that the issue was a variance in specs and some parts of the Winchester would not interchange with the Eddystone and Remingtons and so were held until this could be corrected.

Hard to tell from the pics if the markings on the case are a sign of stretching due to excessive head space or just a rough chamber. Might try the old trick of fine steel wool on a 45 bore brush, well oiled, and given a quick spin with an electric drill. If it is head space this won't hurt anything and may fix the issue if head space is okay.

[racepres]

I have a Winchester action that went through our shop fire that is probably soft.
Isn't there supposed to be a place in Utah that does re-heat treating of rifle actions?

Blanchards???? Maybe

[TurnipEaterDown]

If you decide that it is a strong and safe action, it would be a shame to not chamber it in a real magnum length caliber. You can put 300 Win Mags in a Remington 700 or a Savage 110. A classic full length magnum will never fit.

Odd, lots of Rem 700s built in 375 H&H (I have fired) and 416 Rem Mag.

[Texas by God]

What does the muzzle look like? Original with winged front sight and date or shortened and sportered to match the receiver sight?

[john.k]

The three makers never solved the strict military standard of interchangeability......the P14 was actually three separate models ..P14W,P14R ,and P14E ,and you will find that stamped on the stock ....this problem delayed production until the British accepted the three models compromise........and then Winchester went ahead with their own version of the M17 ,without waiting on Army approvals .......the reason quoted in Edwin Pugsleys diaries was to retain skilled operators...... there was a huge demand for war production workers ,and Winchester was concerned the Army would take months to finalize the design.

[john.k]

Remington also made guns for the French,the 07/15 ,every single one was rejected for lack of interchangeability*.......the US had to bail Remington out ,buying the rifles.....(*and late delivery)

[Remiel]

What does the muzzle look like? Original with winged front sight and date or shortened and sportered to match the receiver sight?

Shortened and sporter sight added

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[Remiel]

Stupid question, but have you checked the headspace using your NOS bolt???

As noted somewhere above, as a handloader you can solve the headspace problem with your reloading procedures, just need to keep track of your brass.

Don't worry about it being an Eddystone, Haters gonna Hate and usually they are people who have never owned any version of the rifle.

Both bolts tested, both failed field gauge

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[Remiel]

I'll try to get a bore picture at some point this week

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[15meter]

Odd, lots of Rem 700s built in 375 H&H (I have fired) and 416 Rem Mag.

I didn't think the Safari actions were the same as run of the mill, 06' length Remington actions. I was under the belief that although they were called 700's they were a distinctly different action.

Yes? No? I honestly don't know.

[Texas by God]

The 700 was offered in .300 H&H, .300 WBY, and 8mm Rem Mag at different times- all full length magnums. The Savage 110 I believe was 06 length only.


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[TurnipEaterDown]

I didn't think the Safari actions were the same as run of the mill, 06' length Remington actions. I was under the belief that although they were called 700's they were a distinctly different action.

Yes? No? I honestly don't know.

Rem 700s come in two lengths, and from the factory the long handles the 06 & belted magnums (7mm Rem, 300 Win, 7 STW, 300 Weatherby, 376 H&H, 416 Rem Mag, etc.), as well as the beltless magnums (RUM for instance). 3.690" is the mag well length if I remember right.

The difference in a Rem 700 270 Win donor I had and the 7mm RUM I built was just the bolt face and barrel.
I got into this discussion 20 years ago with a friend when I put my 7mm RUM together. He was incorrect.
I load the 162 A Max Hornady to 3.822" COL, and it needs to be single fed. Other loads for 7 RUM (especially if kept at SAAMI length) drop right in the magazine.
Thread drift warning: I never understood the hatred of the 7mm RUM by the way. Worked fantastic for me. 5 shot groups @ 100 yds into 3/8" in factory barrel. I don't usually have a range where I can shoot practice targets past 200 even now, and it used to be 100 yd, but I remember a buck antelope I shot w/ that and watched the blood spray about 4 feet straight out on a 300 yd impact.

If I do remember right, the 416 Rigby case does Not work in a 700 Remington though.
There is a Savage that will take this Rigby class of case I understand (it is where the 338 Lapua came from), but having no Savage rifles I will admit to being ignorant there.