Well I picked this up a while ago and since it can't be restored, I'd like to rebarrel it. The old barrel is worn and failed headspace tests so I'm wondering if I could turn this into a magnum caliber, or because it's an eddystone should I just turn it back to a 30-06 or something similar?
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No Such Thing...Sorry common mistake...that is more properly, an M1917 Enfield..
I have it's twin...Had a Pristine example... My friend is building a Great collection of US wartime arms...so, he has that one now.
They are hell for Strong.. would make a great Weatherby or some such!! I use mine for "Unknown" '06's... it is a tool... But, I am Too...or so I'm tole!!!
U.S. Model of 1917 is correct, but Jane's Book of Firearms Identification lists it as a P-17--so I'll go with either designation. The fact that it's an Eddystone wouldn't deter me from making it into a magnum of some sort, if that's what I wanted. There's been a rumor for many years that the Remington and Winchester receivers were stronger, but the truth of the matter is that some of the Eddystone barrels were over-tightened causing cracks at the front of the receiver rings. Time and experience has shown that all three are equal in strength. Back when I was actively gunsmithing I converted several to .300 Win. Mag. and never received a complaint.
DG
Possible to bore it out to 35 Whelen?
That I don't know, I did tie I to a sled and shot it with a string, and the brass had a bright ring about 1/3 up from the case head. My retired gunsmith friend mentioned turning it into a 300wm or something similar like his.Originally Posted by Silvercreek Farmer
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I heard that too, and I wonder if the 06 barrel that's on it was the original one since the finish is different on the barrel, I kinda want a 300wm or possibly a 7mm mag, which is part of the reason I paid the $100 for it.
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If the barrel isn't completely toast I'd go for a 300 H&H.
Got one, load it for anything from a squirrel to group shooting Zombies.
And 300 H&H's look great with a spitzer. Mini cruise missiles.
Last edited by 15meter; 01-27-2023 at 09:03 AM.
Not much to it, really. A .300 Win. Mag. chambering reamer will erase an '06 chamber. No need to take the barrel off (assuming that the bore and rifling are still good....), and a .300 chamber can be created by use of a reamer mounted in a long "T" handle through the receiver from the back and using headspace gauges to check on the progress. Be sure to follow the pattern of oiling the reamer and chamber, taking just 3 or 4 turns, then cleaning the reamer and chamber by swabbing it out with kerosene, then repeating until you're where you want to be. Then the bolt's face has to be opened to accept the magnum size cartridge base by milling or grinding off part of the positioning lip but none of the bolt's face needs to be removed. Shortly before I retired from the business I had one last one to do. I positioned the bolt in the milling machine vise and then turned the traverse wheel the wrong way and milled the entire lip off! It sat around looking at me for several years until I gave it to a friend here on the Forum, along with a new bolt. Haven't heard if he got it working or not....
DG
The book "Introduction to Modern Gunsmithing" by Harold E. MacFarland has an excellent section about sporterizing the M1917 & P1914 Enfields. Though they are out of stock at the moment, Criterion barrels has replacement military barrels for the M1917. I have read that it is not advisable to rechamber original M17 & P14 barrels to magnum cartridges because these nickle-steel barrels can split under the increased pressure. I have no doubt that many of these barrels have been rechambered without incident, but modern alloy steel barrels are stronger. As far as converting the rifle to a magnum cartridge, this is certainly do-able, but would require opening the bolt face. From personal experience, the bolts on these rifles are so hard that carbide tooling isn't hard enough, and a toolpost grinder would be a better choice to do this job.
It is often said that a P1914 bolt already has a "magnum" bolt face (since the 303 British has a similar case head diameter to the belted magnums), but it's not necessarily just a bolt swap to make that conversion. The M1917 has a cone breech, and the P1914 has a flat breech (with a recess for the left side bolt lug: which is longer). Also, the P14 bolt uses a smaller diameter firing pin tip, which is designed for Berdan primers. If used with boxer primers it can cause pierced primers. You can use a M17 firing pin in a P14 bolt, but the firing pin hole needs to be enlarged. About the only thing that will cut the new firing pin hole in that hard bolt face is a straight flute Hirok drill bit.
I don't mean to discourage, but working on a M17 or P14 Enfield isn't as easy as sporterizing a Mauser. You need either the skills of a gunsmith that's familiar with bolt action milsurps, or a machine shop of your own with gunsmithing tools. About your least costly option would be to send this rifle out to have it rebored & rifled as either an 8mm-06, a 338-06 or a 35 Whelen.
If I wanted a magnum I would start with a P14.
If the chamber area is good on your existing rifle I would have it rebored to 35 whelen or 375 whelen.
If the bore is worn but shootable you could rechamber it to a magnum, plus the bolt face work.
I've shot a ton of boxer primed rounds thru P14's and never had a firing pin issue. Not sure where that comment came from.
YMMV
If the throat is worn, it may be a perfect cast bullet rifle as-is. As a handloader, head space is not an issue.
The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"
Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!
"....The old barrel is worn and failed headspace tests so I'm wondering if I could turn this into a magnum caliber,...."
If the orig/old bbl is worn,,is it worth rechambering to another caliber? (300 magnum for instance) .
If the headspace is out of spec but the bore is OK for a cheap shooter,,,and you reload for the 30-06,,it's a simple matter to set your brass for this particular rifles chamber excess HS and all.
That way you won't have any excess HS using the brass made up just for this rifle and those worrys go away.
It's a simple process,,needs only to be done once. From there you neck size only and don't push the neck back again so as to re-create the HS problem again.
SMLE shooters do it all the time.
Looks like a decent Milsurp Sporter with a nice rear sight.
I never had any issues with Eddystone mfgr '17s that I worked over.
I wouldn't put a lot of $$ into a '17 now unless it was #1, a Remington or #2 a Winchester. But that's just considering future resale.
Sure,,we never contemplate selling anything.
1917's & '14's are beasts. You can fit most anything into them.
I too would be at least fireforming a few cases to see how she shoots!!!
I know about zip about the M1917 really...but, Noticed like all things Interweb shared... they suck compared to Remingtons and Winchester... Odd...Remington owned the plant at Eddystone.. so??? I will continue to believe that Haters just gotta Hate... or More likely...Collectors need to Bolster their own collection...at someone elses expense of course!!!
Somewhere maybe there is Documented Proof...by a not biased, tester??? Nah...
This is the one that DG mentioned.
It’s in line behind some other projects but it’s on its way to being a .300 Win Magnum.
That I only shoot cast in.
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The rifling looks good with some bumps and darkness in the groves, I didn't see how accurate it was cause it was tied to the bench. This issue I had was the shiny ring that developed around the case after firing, I can try and get a picture of the rifling tomorrow
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My Remington M17 started life in a similar state to yours but the barrel was completely rusted. I managed to get a Winchester P14 tackoff in 303 and a Winchester P14 bolt. Fitting it all together and rechambered for 303 Epps Improved.
Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!
How about a picture of fired case.
In fact ,the barrel is not nickle steel,only the reciever and bolt .......the late Eddystones are well documented for suspect production methods ,and often the metal is glass hard....After 11/11/1918 the Eddystone factory went into overdrive ,and there are many eyewitness accounts of the methods used to turn out as many as another million rifles before production stopped six months later.
RustyReel: Your probably right. The advise about switching over to a M17 firing pin is from the era of spoterizing from after WW2 to the 1970's. There were some cracked or over-hardened receivers floating around back then, and the idea about getting pierced primers might have been because it happened to a few people back when there was a lot of sporterizing going on. When you've got a cargo ship full of apples, there bound to be a few bad apples. The P1914 action was the one used most for magnum conversions, and I sure wouldn't want to have a pierced primer on something like a 358 Norma Magnum with a rifle that doesn't have a gas shield on the bolt shroud. By now most of the actions that were going to have problems are probably gone.
I'm not supprized that you didn't have any problems with your builds because some benchrest shooters (who are always pushing the boundaries of what's possible) are using smaller diameter firing pin tips on some fairly high pressure cartridges without incident. Apparently the smaller diameter tips require 1/3 less striking force to set off the primer. Those guys will experiment with anything that will give them an edge. Personally, I try to error on the side of caution. Changing out the firing pin may not be necessary, but I feel more comfortable about the firearm by doing it.
Also, I remember now: the advise about not using the original barrels for conversion to magnum cartridges - I forgot what I was told. It was actually "don't bore them out to magnum cartridges larger than 30 caliber." I was told this by a couple of my gunsmith friends. I've never seen a P14/M17 barrel split, or ever met someone that has, but it must have happened to someone. A magnum conversion where you thin the barrel walls on a 100+ year old barrel? I think a new barrel blank would be a better option.
John.k: A worn out barrel that I pulled off a P1914 about ten years ago that had the British proofs on it had "nickle steel" stamped on it.
Here's one of them, factory LC M2 round
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Last edited by Remiel; 01-28-2023 at 12:16 AM.
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