Lee PrecisionWidenersTitan ReloadingRepackbox
RotoMetals2MidSouth Shooters SupplyLoad DataInline Fabrication
Reloading Everything
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 82

Thread: Harder Cast versus Hard Cast

  1. #61
    Moderator Emeritus


    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    15,833
    Yeah, it would be much better if I said, "I drive a harder hardcast truck" LOL
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  2. #62
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,401
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    Yeah, it would be much better if I said, "I drive a harder hardcast truck" LOL
    Just like saying he drives a car. What kind of car?
    What color is the car? What year, brand What if the cops would call in to dispatch and say "I am in pursuit of an armed subject driving a car. He just committed mayhem on a person and I need back up". The dispatcher would want as much info as possible not just that the pursued was driving a car. And that he was chasing the Bad Guy down a road. Many drive cars. It could be one of us pulled over and have the Lone Ranger throwdown put on us just because we were driving A CAR down A ROAD.

  3. #63
    Moderator Emeritus


    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    15,833
    ...and the mayhem was done via a harder hardcast boolit.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  4. #64
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,401
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    ...and the mayhem was done via a harder hardcast boolit.
    Now you are catching on. I had high hopes for you.
    I had a friend that went by the name Bill. Knew him for years. Thought his name was short or a nickname for William. Wrong, William wasn't his first, middle or last. I assumed. I was wrong. Just like 15 BHN is hard compared to lower BHN's but not AS HARD as higher BHN's. So "HARD" can be hard but not as "hard" as higher numbers so the lower numbers are relatively harder. Or they could be termed relatively softer since they are softer than "HARDER" or "HIGHER" BHN's numbers

  5. #65
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    West Central AL
    Posts
    90
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    The problem with assigning names/terms to a boolit alloy's hardness is, that it doesn't tell us the whole story. One alloy that measures 16 may be tougher than another...and that first alloy may react different in the chamber (under pressure) than the second one, if it is a different composition. So you can't really judge an alloy's shoot-ability by it's BHN number or a term like Hardcast that has been assigned to a alloy's hardness.

    I will add, that talking about hardness in terms of defining an alloy by it's BHN number does a great deal to confuse those new to the hobby.
    This is my point exactly. If we got to locate an alloy on a chart why not use the bhn number that’s been around for years. That would tell you about as much as softest, softer, soft, sorta hard, harder, hard, hardest, and hardester. A caster needs to mix an alloy that works best for his own application and then call it whatever he wants to. JMHO

    What works fine for me is clip on wheel weights + %4 tin. I have no idea where that falls on the charts but it works well in all my revolvers and a 35REM
    A bumble bee is considerable faster than a John Deere tractor

  6. #66
    Moderator Emeritus


    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    15,833
    Quote Originally Posted by 44MAG#1 View Post
    Now you are catching on. I had high hopes for you.

    >>SNIP<<

    So "HARD" can be hard but not as "hard" as higher numbers so the lower numbers are relatively harder. Or they could be termed relatively softer since they are softer than "HARDER" or "HIGHER" BHN's numbers
    I still say colors are the way to go.
    None of this hardest hard hard (sounds like Hardy har har).
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  7. #67
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,401
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    I still say colors are the way to go.
    None of this hardest hard hard (sounds like Hardy har har).
    Colors may be the way to go. What color would you assign for each of the 17 BHN's 5 to 22 BHN? What about the the BHN's between the two whole nbers.
    How many colors would we need?
    Seems to me too much work and colors. What is one ran out of a color? What shade of red would be need ETC. and so on and so forth ?


    See with this post how shades can cause problems in and of themselves

  8. #68
    Moderator Emeritus


    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    15,833
    You must not know the Resistor color chart, and I'm sure you didn't click on the link as it explains it all...infinite combinations are possible. But, as they say, ignorance is bliss.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  9. #69
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,401
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    You must not know the Resistor color chart, and I'm sure you didn't click on the link as it explains it all...infinite combinations are possible. But, as they say, ignorance is bliss.
    I see the link now.
    So you are proposing putting little colored band around each bullet denoting alloy composition and hardness etc, etc.? What if it gets messed up on handling? What about sizing? What about what about lubing? Will the pretty bands stay on?
    Last edited by 44MAG#1; 01-26-2023 at 06:06 PM.

  10. #70
    Moderator Emeritus


    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    15,833
    It wouldn't have to be stripes. The PC boys are pretty creative, they'll hash that out in no time.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  11. #71
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,401
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    It wouldn't have to be stripes. The PC boys are pretty creative, they'll hash that out in no time.
    Maybe they could come up with a polka dot color.
    I would like that. Since I am blissed by ignorance I could just sit and look at them. Stare into them and hope for non ignorance.

  12. #72
    Moderator Emeritus


    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    15,833
    Lots of ideas. Most in this thread are solid color, but some are multi-color.
    Hint: start at the end of thread and scroll backward.
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...cs-only/page40
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  13. #73
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,401
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    Lots of ideas. Most in this thread are solid color, but some are multi-color.
    Hint: start at the end of thread and scroll backward.
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...cs-only/page40
    I have some multi colored bullets. They are from Brass Monkey Bullets
    They are "Hard" at 15 BHN but not "As Hard" as a "higher" BHN bullets. Believe it or not I shot some 15 BHN bullets in my 1911 this evening at 250 gr. weight.
    Last edited by 44MAG#1; 01-26-2023 at 08:44 PM.

  14. #74
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    183
    But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed.

    Lead is 11.34 grams per cubic centimeter.

  15. #75
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,401
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
    But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed.

    Lead is 11.34 grams per cubic centimeter.
    Why would you reply to my Signature Block? That has nothing to do with the subject.
    Just curious.
    BTW that 11.34 grams is 175.003 grains or .4 ozs or .025 lbs or 6.829 atomic mass weight.
    I have one of those calculator things on my phone.
    Last edited by 44MAG#1; 01-28-2023 at 09:45 PM.

  16. #76
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by 44MAG#1 View Post
    Why would you reply to my Signature Block? That has nothing to do with the subject.
    Just curious.
    BTW that 11.34 grams is 175.003 grains or .4 ozs or .025 lbs or 6.829 atomic mass weight.
    I have one of those calculator things on my phone.
    Your thread and sig line read as if you put a lot of value in doing things by the book and that you like to argue. 15 bhn like Lyman No2 is hard. Whether you measure pure lead at bhn 5 or 7 makes absolutely no difference in how we as boolit casters cast or alloy with it.
    Willie
    Last edited by Willie T; 01-29-2023 at 08:47 AM.

  17. #77
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,401
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
    Your thread and sig line read as if you put a lot of value in doing things by the book and that you like to argue. 15 bhn like Lyman No2 is hard. Whether you measure pure lead at bhn 5 or 7 makes absolutely no difference in how we as boolit casters cast or alloy with it.
    Willie
    You have missed the point entirely. Let me explain this. "HARD" is a relative term meaning it is relative to what. Many, many called 15 BHN "HARD" So if 15 BHN is hard what is 22 BHN? 10 BHN compared to softer such as 8 BHN. Is "HARD" but it is not "HARD" compared to 15 BHN. 17 BHN is "HARD" compared to 15 BHN but it isn't as hard as 22 BHN.
    "HARD", how hard? Is it REALLY "HARD" or relatively "HARD"
    ME going by the book???? I am probably one of the least likely to go by the book.
    My signature line came about a thread where I was told mass cannot be weighed by a member that tried their best to correct me using mass in an equation
    That member doesn't post anymore as far as I know. So the first line of my sig block was what I was told. Not what I AM SAYING.

  18. #78
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by 44MAG#1 View Post
    You have missed the point entirely. Let me explain this. "HARD" is a relative term meaning it is relative to what. Many, many called 15 BHN "HARD" So if 15 BHN is hard what is 22 BHN? 10 BHN compared to softer such as 8 BHN. Is "HARD" but it is not "HARD" compared to 15 BHN. 17 BHN is "HARD" compared to 15 BHN but it isn't as hard as 22 BHN.
    "HARD", how hard? Is it REALLY "HARD" or relatively "HARD"
    ME going by the book???? I am probably one of the least likely to go by the book.
    My signature line came about a thread where I was told mass cannot be weighed by a member that tried their best to correct me using mass in an equation
    That member doesn't post anymore as far as I know. So the first line of my sig block was what I was told. Not what I AM SAYING.
    With all due respect, you do not need to explain anything about bullet hardness or prove anything to me. I am well versed in useful casting alloys and shooting them. Your point was fully understood. Many very skilled casters use nothing more than alloy composition, a thumbnail test, and shooting results rather than getting knotted up arguing about bhn. Alloy composition and how boolits are cooled is far more useful for a caster than how he measures the hardness of his boolits. Is the juice worth the squeeze is my point.
    Willie

  19. #79
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,401
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie T View Post
    With all due respect, you do not need to explain anything about bullet hardness or prove anything to me.

    I never singled you out in this thread. You drank the juice I squeezed.

    I am well versed in useful casting alloys and shooting them. Your point was fully understood.

    well then.
    That is good.

    Many very skilled casters use nothing more than alloy composition, a thumbnail test, and shooting results rather than getting knotted up arguing about bhn.

    Who was knotted up? I as a question about the used of the word "HARD". I understand about alloys, alloying, casting, even water quenching. I have done it in the past over many, many, many ,many, many years.

    Alloy composition and how boolits are cooled is far more useful for a caster than how he measures the hardness of his boolits.

    I am well versed in the cooling of alloys including water quenching.
    Is the juice worth the squeeze is my point.
    Willie
    If one is drinking the juice someone else squeezed why worry about THEIR effort? If one doesn't want to drink the juice just don't drink it and if one does drink it just smile and drink.

  20. #80
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Jan 2023
    Location
    Flint area, Michigan
    Posts
    32
    I didn't read the whole thread, but to OPs original question, I think you basically answered it yourself. BHN is a measurement and is relative.

    You're asking if 5 is bigger than 1, yes. Or if 4,578 is smaller than 13,239. Yes again.

    Is 5 a big number, it depends. Compared to 0.001, yes it is. But not when compared to 4,713. So in order to determine the significance of a number or hardness, you need to apply a context and intent.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check