Lee PrecisionLoad DataMidSouth Shooters SupplyReloading Everything
RepackboxRotoMetals2Inline FabricationWideners
Titan Reloading
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29

Thread: Tumble Lube non-TL bullets?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    914

    Tumble Lube non-TL bullets?

    I've heard it can work just fine. All you need is a light coating of alox, and you're good to go. The bullet in question is the 40 cal, top left. This is the best I have managed to get them.

    The 9mm TL bullets below them shoot fairly clean, but not as good as MBC bullets.

    My 223 bullets have gas checks, so that's cheating. But the grooves fill out nice!



    Anyone?

    Yes, it works for me, just like that. Yes, it works for me, but your bullets look terrible. No, tumble lubing non-TL bullets doesn't work for me.

    Last time I tried this, my bore fouled (badly!) with one shot. The only difference is I cut the alox with some wax, this time. And I sized the bullets, which seems to have helped them pick up a tiny bit more lube. The gun shoots the exact same MBC bullets pretty good, sized to the same 401.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    pworley1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    3,253
    The only way you will know is to try it in your gun. For the record it has worked fine for me.
    NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Sam Sackett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    Shippensburg, PA
    Posts
    366
    Works for me. I just did up a batch of 358” 158RF’s last week. I don’t hot rod them, though.

    If you’re doing bullets for 40 cal, that’s pushing things a bit. You will need at least 2 coats. I don’t know what “wax” you added, but if it was anything but Carnuba it won’t work.

    Sam Sackett

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    914
    I tumbled these twice, once before and once after sizing. It doesn't seem to really build up multiple coats, at least the way I do it.

    On my rifle bullets, the second coat DOES make a difference. I think it's because sizing makes the TL grooves sharper and maybe shallower, but that's just a theory. As an experiment, I tried getting the grooves to fill on some 223 bullets before the sizing and checking, and they won't. After checking/sizing, they fill up. That's why I tried sizing these 40 bullets.

    This batch of lube is beeswax and alox. Maybe there is something special about the old Johnson's Paste Wax. Maybe it has carnuba. Or maybe it builds up thicker. That's why I posted pics to find out if my tumble lubing is not good/thick.

    The only way I have so far managed to get better fill on the single groove is by adding more lube to the pan, but then the lube clumps and sticks all over the bullets. It might be an improvement, but it's one that is not worth it to me when I can buy a new mold or just simply not shoot my own bullets in this caliber. The latter has been a pretty decent solution for the last 10 years.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    914
    The cheapness of premade pistol boolits and lack of a toaster oven just kicking around is keeping me from the PC/Hitek route. I rarely make pistol boolits in any caliber, TBH. I have a cheap pistol mold in all my calibers more of a comfort thing, knowing I can make some bullets if I wanted to. This is the one caliber where I decided to buy a regular lube groove mold.

    With that in mind, maybe I'll try boogering the mold. You could theoretically make a series of cutters with a pilot that rides against the edge of the single groove, so the cutter can accurately divide the groove into two smaller ones... maybe small enough and hopefully sharp enough to pick up some tumble lube? I'm not sure I can make those small features accurately enough. Even if it didn't work with TL, it should still work with coatings, if I could at least get the bullets to drop out after the hack job.

    I'm not too concerned with ruining the lube groove. Lubesizing is probably the last rabbit hole I would ever go down.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master schutzen-jager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    peoples republic of new jersey
    Posts
    778
    been doing it for decades on regular + tumble styles for every pistol + rifle caliber i cast for - fast, easy, + economical - never any leading issues - jmho beats powder coating in every way -
    never pick a fight with an old man - if he is too old to fight he will just kill you -
    in this current crisis our government is not the solution , it is the problem ! -

    ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM

    as they say in latin

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy Arkansas Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Central Arkansas
    Posts
    320
    It has worked great for most applications for me.
    It has worked fine for .38 Spcl, .40, standard .45 Colt loads, .44 Special.

    The only thing I've had a problem with has been 9mm.
    Life is a series of bullseyes and backstraps - Ted Nugent

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

    imashooter2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    7,899
    I have had poor luck with the micro band designs I have tried, but film lubing standard configurations has worked well for me.
    Last edited by imashooter2; 02-09-2023 at 05:26 PM.
    ”We know they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying, yet they are still lying.” –Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn

    My Straight Shooters thread:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-shooter

    The Pewter Pictures and Hallmarks thread:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-and-hallmarks

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    914
    Quote Originally Posted by schutzen-jager View Post
    been doing it for decades on regular + tumble styles for every pistol + rifle caliber i cast for - fast, easy, + economical - never any leading issues - jmho beats powder coating in every way -
    Am I doing anything wrong, you can tell? Does your process leave a thicker coat of lube, and if so do you manage to get any of the lube in the groove? Or do your bullets get a thick coat all over? Maybe you can share your lube recipe and process?

    I have success in all my other calibers, with TL. But all the other bullets were designed for TL.


    Arkansas Paul, feel free to chime in here, too. BTW, I also had issue with 9mm, until I got an oversize expander from NOE.

    imashooter, I'm not sure what you mean with the micro designs and film lube. I take it you don't even bother with TL designs and just tumble lube regular bullets? Normal lube groove and/or plain bullets (the ones they make now, for PC'ers?)
    Last edited by gloob; 01-22-2023 at 07:43 PM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    'Bout a hundred miles from the Gulf of Mexico
    Posts
    1,149
    Only boolits I tumble lube are commercial cast, already lubed boolits. They get two top coats of BLL, the original formula. I powder coat the rest. Sometimes I even add a top coat of BLL to pc boolits! Tried pc and BLL top coat on some .30 caliber slugs in a 30/30 win. They shot well, with no leading! .40 cal.gets pc only. Tumble lube design or regular lube groove doesn’t seem to make a difference. Good luck.
    I firmly believe that you should only get treated by how you act, not by who or what you are!!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Hick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Winnemucca, NV
    Posts
    1,600
    Yes indeed, TL works fine, but seem s a little firearm specific for me. I TL 223 Rem (with a gas check), 9mm, 44-40, 38 special, and 357 Magnum (revolver and rifle) and they all work great, but not in my 30-30, 32 WS and Garand. No idea why.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    914
    The most popular responses in this thread are the same I find from searching.

    1. Shape of the bullet doesn't matter, TL works the same
    2. I've never tried tumble lubing on non TL bullets, personally, but I heard it works.

    I seem to be in a pretty small minority where I've tried it and it didn't work. (Just me and the folks at Lee, apparently.)

    I dipped a strip of paper into melted lube and wrapped it into the lube groove of a handful of bullets. If these work, but the regular TL'd bullets don't, then I guess that might mean something.

    I already started making a cutter to modify my mold. It looks like it might be viable.

    It's usually a long time between my shooting sessions, and especially one's where you only get one shot before the gun is retired for cleaning. I can screw with bullets anytime. It's just a Lee 2-cavity. So's I might possibly modify/ruin my mold before I even try this batch of bullets.
    Last edited by gloob; 01-22-2023 at 11:33 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    914
    I have some new bullets to try.







    The cutter is made from 3/8" rod.



    Driven by a cordless drill, in a bushing held by vice grips.


    The mold was closed over the cutter and held shut in a vice. Then I pushed the bushing this way and that while running the drill, to get it to cut all the way around.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    9,253
    It (TL'ing regular grooved boolits ) has worked for me ... to the extent I don't bother with the special TL designs ... just the conventional lube grooved ones .

    And don't consider using a Gas Check as cheating ... a GC is just another tool to use to get good loads . Some consider GC as a horrible thing to be avoided at all cost ...
    Not So , it's just a little cup-o-metal that can help you get a good load .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
    " Let's Go Brandon !"

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Middle of the Mitten
    Posts
    1,330
    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    It (TL'ing regular grooved boolits ) has worked for me ... to the extent I don't bother with the special TL designs ... just the conventional lube grooved ones .

    And don't consider using a Gas Check as cheating ... a GC is just another tool to use to get good loads . Some consider GC as a horrible thing to be avoided at all cost ...
    Not So , it's just a little cup-o-metal that can help you get a good load .
    Gary
    Yes certainly on gas checks.. sometimes they save ya... if I am experimenting...I am likely to "dip" the shank of boolits into LLA, then set in an old tin pan to "harden".. The Method hasn't let me down yet... some of the Boolit shapes however????? Different story

  16. #16
    Boolit Master schutzen-jager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    peoples republic of new jersey
    Posts
    778

    gloob

    mine have a thicker coating than the ones you pictured - i'm using the Lee alox not thinned but i warm the bottle in hot tap water before using - the rifling does not usually go very deeply into the lube groove on non tl bullets so filling them is a non issue - the non tumble lubed 9 mm are loaded fairly hot because they are used mostly in my Lugers -
    never pick a fight with an old man - if he is too old to fight he will just kill you -
    in this current crisis our government is not the solution , it is the problem ! -

    ILLEGITIMI NON CARBORUNDUM

    as they say in latin

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    914
    ^ That pic is very helpful, thanks. It triggered some memories. I'm pretty sure I did it similarly, the first few times.

    I can't even produce that result with my current lube recipe and process. I guess I drifted over at some point to filling up the TL grooves.

    The irony. Lee invented the TL groove bullet. But when you follow the directions of their lube product, you might end up wondering what the grooves are even for. The lube often ends up anywhere but the groove!

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NE Kansas
    Posts
    2,421
    The LLA (Lee Liquid Alox) is intended to be applied lightly and allowed to dry hard between coatings. I would size the bullets first and then apply the lube. Sizing rubs the lube off the bands so it no longer prevents lead transferring to the barrel surface. The soft wax bullet lubes will act as a gasket to prevent hot powder gas from blowing past the bullet and gas cutting with leading in the barrel being the result. If your casting is .401" and the groove is .401" and you only apply light coats of LLA, where is the gas seal? Your problem is not likely the product, but the process. Make sure the seat and crimp process does not reduce the bullet diameter..

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    914
    Thanks for the tips, Dusty.

    I have noticed a huge variation in how people TL. I've seen a lot of people use only the thinnest sheen on their bullets that you can't even see. Not a spec of lube in the groove at all. I also wonder how that works. Maybe it's some special ingredient. Fortune Cookie demonstrates this result. But I usually see this on a low velocity bullet like 45 ACP or a gas checked bullet. I don't know, myself. I plugged my bore with fouling, trying to do that with a non-TL bullet in 40.

    My bullets only get a thin sheen, but I imagine they work because the lube grooves get filled up. Same as a lube-sized bullet. I like it because they look better. They don't jam up in a match chamber. Lube doesn't build up in your seating or taper dies. And after you seat the bullet, the lube is still in there forever, even if you drop your bullet in lint or dirt and have to wipe it off.

    LLA dries hard. I have a piece from a bottle that is 12 years old, and it's like a piece of hocky puck. But if you heat it, it turns back into liquid. I doubt LLA acts like a coating, at all. Once you fire it, it must liquify near instantly. If your bullets shoot right with just a thin coating, there must be some special other ingredient in your lube, or you've really got a good gun/bullet/load combo sorted out!?

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    NE Kansas
    Posts
    2,421
    What would make LLA liquify? You have seen the advertising where the bullet is melted with a torch, and the LLA does not run. Once the bullet fills the hole, no gas leaks by to erode the bullet surface and lead the barrel. Size 1-2 thousandths over groove diameter, two light coats, dry and do not crimp excessively to reduce the size of the bullet.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check