8yrs old, M1 Garand Kaboom

[SSGOldfart]

I Do Not shoot Steel Cases in US Service Rifles, Just no Right!
Barman54
Out

+1

[stripe]

I picked up maybe 40 or 50 boxes of the subject ammo a couple of years ago at an estate sale. So far there have been no problems. I've fired it in my Imbel and my oldest son in his AR10. If anyone else has experience with the subject ammo --good or bad -- please post here.

When I lived in PA I would often go to auctions held in Lancaster (won't mention the auctioneer). There was always "lots" of ammunition available for the highest bidder and the guy that I went to the auctions with would bid on some of it. He never shot the ammo, but always disassembled it for the components; brass, boolits, and sometimes the primers but never the powder. Apparently one of his brothers had a dangerous experience with auction purchased reloads and that was enough to make his and my friends purchases only for the components. I am not saying someone would reload with the intent of causing harm, but mistakes and accidents are, well, stuff happens.

[LAGS]

I was at the range one day.
A guy was firing an AR with reloads.
The AR Blew Up.
Nobody saw , but he took the rest of his reloads and threw them in the trash.
Later on,
A guy came and found them in the trash but didn't say anything.
He fired five shots with them and he blew up his AR.
Then he told us where he had found the live rounds.
That goes to show that it is not smart to fire off ammo you find in the trash or say laying on the ground when you are out hunting or shooting.
If I find someone else's ammo.
I take it home and tear it down for the parts.
Even if it looks like a brand new box that someone lost or forgot to take home.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Why?

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

So, still looking for factual instances where steel case ammo was the actual cause of problems. We need to get to the bottom of this issue!

[barnetmill]

So, still looking for factual instances where still case ammo was the actual cause of problems. We need to get to the bottom of this issue!

There is dangerous steel ammo and also brass ammo out there. It really depends on QA/QC and storage conditions. For ammo made overseas, that is imported, and then sold by a vendor, often there is no firm guarantee of the product. Most cases if defective it just will not fire.

[Jeremy McLean]

That was my first thought also. When I fire a new firearm or load the first case is always inspected. If anything is out of the ordinary everything stops until the issue is resolved.

I had the same thought about firing a 308 in a 30/06 chamber. The neck and shoulder on the cases are not blown out so it appears that it was a 308 chambered barrel. As to why he kept firing that is a mystery.

The cause could have been from a variety of reasons. Unless someone did a follow-up we will never know. If Cabela's did as claimed in the video there should have been a recall on that lot of ammo? I have seen a so called short chambered Garand barrel that was machined to full depth but it had no throat. The no throat is normal for short chambered Garand or M1A barrels but generally you have about 0.010" to remove before the go gauge will close.

A little history on these shorties https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...he-real-story/

This is an interesting thread.

While I was at Aberdeen Proving Ground for BNCOC in 2000 to 2001 during my short stay there one of the classes I had the privilege of meeting Dr. Atwater along with the rest of my class. I distinctly remember him speaking briefly about the tanker carbine and the M1 Garand variants. The topic came up because we were receiving training in small arms repair and most of us in the class ended up supervising small arms repair shops later on in our careers.

[Gtek]

Could have had a squib laying out there down the pipe from previous also. I have removed one Garand barrel with and required cutting and drilling barrel to remove out of spec cylinder, waste of time. I also have an SKS (Vet bring back) with ghost ring forward of gas port right at rear of sight base. The SKS still shoots like an SKS!

[Adam Helmer]

As an OLD reloader, military arms collector and shooter, I must say the shooter did NOT practice DUE DILIGENCE! When he saw those FLATTENED Primers, he should have stopped shooting! Why did the shooter assume it was ok to keeping shooting ammo that was "TELLING" him to STOP!



Adam

[charlie b]

I liked that he looked inside the fired cases and said the flash holes were off center. LOL. Ammo box says Berdan primed. I guess he did not know what that meant.

The only guns I've fired steel cases in are Warsaw Pact military guns (7.62x39 and 9MAK). I purchased the guns simply because ammo was cheap and I did not plan on reloading for them.

I never saw any reason to fire steel case in my .223 or .308.

Is the ammo the cause of this? Maybe, maybe not. Some of those other cases look like they are near case head separation (with steel cases!). That would lead me to believe headspace might be part of the issue.

But, as stated above, if you are using cheap ammo and you see signs of excess pressure, then STOP shooting and take it back where you bought it. In this case taking the gun back for a headspace check might have been prudent as well.

[FergusonTO35]

Saw an M-14 be completely destroyed when the shooter/owner did some unknown reloading process. I saw the guy handloading his rounds at the range a few days before the match and that is the only time I ever saw a shooter with a reloading rig at any range. Anyhow, he apparently concocted some load in an effort to get more velocity and during the match the gun literally exploded. Bulged out the sides of the receiver, blew the magazine out of the gun and tore it apart, and actually peeled metal from the underside of the bolt. He did not suffer any injury except for the gun and his wallet. I guess that parts of the gun were salvageable: sights, sling and swivels, bayonet stud. Never saw that guy again.

Was that a registered select fire M14? If so, that guy just lost the equivalent of a new car in that mishap.

[lead collector]

Lots of red flags here, before the kaboom. I just dont get it.... Shaking my head....
Why would anyone spend what a fine gun like this costs, and shoot cheap, junk, unknown ammo from a foreign source in it.

I view myself as the curator of my guns, with the privileges to use enjoy and shoot them, but I feel I owe it to history, and the next generation to take the best care of them that I can.
I only shoot mil spec loads or less, in my M-1.
These loads use once fired, or new cases, and after 5 shots, I use them in reduced loads, with cast in my 03-A3 or make 8mm or 7.65 Argentine cases out of them.

[nicholst55]

First, realize that the linked video is 8 years old. I can't recall seeing any Herter's branded ammo for far longer than that, although I haven't been looking for it. IMHO, the rifle's owner was not very bright shooting the ammo after the first ruptured case or blanked primer. Years ago, I bought a bunch of milsurp 7.62X54R ammo, and have owned several Mosin-Nagant rifles and carbines since then. One 'spam can' of brass cased mid-50s dated Yugo milsurp that I bought looked absolutely beautiful when I opened the can and unwrapped the ammo. I even had visions of trying to source the correct Berdan primers to reload it with! Until I fired it, that is. I took some of that ammo and my latest Mosin to the range, and had a ruptured case within the first 5 rounds. I tore all that ammo down, popped the primers, scattered the powder in the desert, and reused the bullets in commercial brass. The beautiful, shiny Yugo brass I sold as scrap metal. That's what the M1's owner should have done.

[376Steyr]

Nobody has mentioned it yet, but it is also possible to get a "slamfire" with the Garand. This occurs when an oversize case (often a reload) gets stopped while chambering. The bolt stops, while it is still unlocked, but the firing pin keeps moving forward. Then very bad things happen. This is why the CMP has a banner on their Garand site telling people to use only factory ammo in their M-1s.

[elmacgyver0]

All I can say is sometimes people deserve to have trouble.

[barnetmill]

Nobody has mentioned it yet, but it is also possible to get a "slamfire" with the Garand. This occurs when an oversize case (often a reload) gets stopped while chambering. The bolt stops, while it is still unlocked, but the firing pin keeps moving forward. Then very bad things happen. This is why the CMP has a banner on their Garand site telling people to use only factory ammo in their M-1s.

It is important to fully set the primers. I have some of the CCI primers that are intended military rifles.
Place the loaded round on a metal plated to make that they are not rocking. If the primer protrudes they rock a little.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Two Saturdays ago I took my Imbel L1A1 to the range with Herter's .308 steel case 150 gr FMJ bullets. Fired about 30 of them. No signs of overpressure. Fairly consistent. Accuracy was not as good as Federal match, but that's to be expected. I'm still wondering if others have had problems with the Herters steel case ammo in any caliber.

[Kestrel4k]

The tanker is not us military issue, but there were naval M1 garand rifles in .308.

Old to the thread here, but the Navy 7.62 Garands still had their gas port in the original location, whereas the "Tanker" is moving the gas port closer to the action.
JG perfected the original design over many years in a Govt arsenal, whereas Tankers often seem to have function issues - as the owner in the video had noted prior to the event in question. I will say that the Mk2Mod1 I have shot has never malfunctioned.

Edie: Not to disagree at all with the very logical route this thread went; I just wanted to post a clarification on the Navy Garands, which are often misunderstood. With this particular Garand being chambered in .308, that is a whole different kettle of fish compared to the 'Navy's - which went through two different gas port diameters during their rebuild run.

As others have said, many many warning signs to have missed by not engaging brain during shooting.

[deces]

I guess Patton was wrong after all.

[Kestrel4k]

I guess Patton was wrong after all.

Just like Newton and Einstein, if you think about it that way.