An old youtube of a brand new 'Tanker Carbine' Garand with a complete headcase separation. No idea what the original headspace was like. Clearly the ammo was at fault here. The ammo was rebranded tula ammo packed in a Herter's box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TleMPyDq56s
Op Rod is likely wasted too...at minimum
Bullet could be oversize or even 8mm
If 8mm would chamber, there were certainly some serious problems. The explosion was channeled mostly safely down with minor bruising of the hand and splitting the stock.Originally Posted by Martin Luber
Not sure why the guy keep firing this "M1". Within the first 2 minutes of the video I see multiple cases that are separating along with blown/compromised primers. Yikes, I would have stopped firing it long ago.
Note that an "M1 Tanker Garand" is not a US military piece, even more so when in 308 caliber. Maybe it is really a 30-06 caliber??? And that explains the cartridge issues????
Anyway, to me, this is on the shooter. Should have stopped and had the rifle checked further to see what was going on prior to the ka-boom. Plenty of signs there...
45_Colt
P.S. lets be safe out there.
Blame it on the ammo? I blame it on the shooter for running that crap ammo in his Garand.
The tanker is not us military issue, but there were naval M1 garand rifles in .308. Today .308 is a little better priced than is 30-06 fmj 150 rounds. So the .308/7.62 Nato is a better choice for a rifle these days.
I think he may have been in a hurry that often saps people judgement. When younger I have done such things.
That was my first thought also. When I fire a new firearm or load the first case is always inspected. If anything is out of the ordinary everything stops until the issue is resolved.
I had the same thought about firing a 308 in a 30/06 chamber. The neck and shoulder on the cases are not blown out so it appears that it was a 308 chambered barrel. As to why he kept firing that is a mystery.
The cause could have been from a variety of reasons. Unless someone did a follow-up we will never know. If Cabela's did as claimed in the video there should have been a recall on that lot of ammo? I have seen a so called short chambered Garand barrel that was machined to full depth but it had no throat. The no throat is normal for short chambered Garand or M1A barrels but generally you have about 0.010" to remove before the go gauge will close.
A little history on these shorties https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...he-real-story/
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
They were a not very workable stop gap measure. I had ten of them for the marksmanship team. They used a chamber insert in a standard 30/06 chamber to convert to 308. Some claimed usable accuracy for NRA Highpower Service rifle. I did not find that to be true. The ones I had only saw usage for the newest shooter that had very limited shooting experience. If they showed any talent or improvement they were issued MN M14's. Two of the conversion Nayv M1's threw their inserts. They did not blow their case heads with M118 although they did produce a straight wall case. I still have one of the inserts in one of my junk boxes.
History of the Navy .308 Garand Conversion.
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/nav...nd-conversion/
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-...n%20Report.PDF
On a side note the NM Garands when barreled in 308 shot and functioned very well.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-21-2023 at 07:44 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Saw an M-14 be completely destroyed when the shooter/owner did some unknown reloading process. I saw the guy handloading his rounds at the range a few days before the match and that is the only time I ever saw a shooter with a reloading rig at any range. Anyhow, he apparently concocted some load in an effort to get more velocity and during the match the gun literally exploded. Bulged out the sides of the receiver, blew the magazine out of the gun and tore it apart, and actually peeled metal from the underside of the bolt. He did not suffer any injury except for the gun and his wallet. I guess that parts of the gun were salvageable: sights, sling and swivels, bayonet stud. Never saw that guy again.
It is my understanding that the inserts did not work and some guns were rebarreled. I do not have the reference for that.
Assuming the gun was rebarreled and chambered properly I would prefer a 7.62x51 chambering in the gun. The only downside is that I believe some foreign nato ammo is a loaded to a little higher pressure than US gi 30-06, but by the time it gets to the muzzle I have no idea what the port pressure is.
There is no way to fix stupid .....
'I have always wondered if the GI receivers which are illegal for civilians were stronger than the commercial guns. The chinese polytechs were said to have a superior steel for the receivers in their copies of the M14. But they used rockwell 40 hardness bolts in their guns that was stupid or maybe not depending on their long-term thinking.
I have a friend that was shooting his AR10 .308.
Then he started shooting his M1 Garand in .30-06.
He accidently loaded the Garand with some .308 rounds.
The rifle fired off the .308s
But when he picked up the casings , he noticed that the case shoulder was blown forward and stretched really thin.
It was a stupid mistake on his part.
And now he does not have two different caliber of rounds on the same shooting bench at the same time.
I picked up maybe 40 or 50 boxes of the subject ammo a couple of years ago at an estate sale. So far there have been no problems. I've fired it in my Imbel and my oldest son in his AR10. If anyone else has experience with the subject ammo --good or bad -- please post here.
What I would do is to first make sure that they are all the same lot number. Likely will be same in that if the first box was good then all of the others will be too.
Since it was multiple cases that showed extreme pressures, that is not a question of improper metering of powder. It had to be the wrong powder that was burning too quickly. A 308 case will not have a lot of excess capacity like a 30-06 does. With the right powders while case could be over charged, I really wounder about blowing up the gun. They could have put 7.62x54 bullets that are close to .311, but catastrophic failure resulting from them I really doubt. I would think that steel cases to have a stronger head, but that is sheer guessing on my part.
I think a lot of the cases got loaded with a fast burning pistol powder. Sometime the last round to be loaded from a hopper can get rifle powder dust at the end of hopper and an examination of the loads in unfired cartridges would have revealed it. My guess someone that was intoxicated was working and that is not unknown to happen Russia.
I Do Not shoot Steel Cases in US Service Rifles, Just no Right!
Barman54
Out
There is a proverb: commie ammo for commie rifles meaning only shoot steel case in russian designed weapons.
My glocks work fine with 9mm steel case. I have had no trouble yet with it in ARs relative to ejection. I have modified the firing and hammer spring to fire 7.62x39 in an AR. But now all is good. I have fired more modern wolf .308 in my PTR91 and it functions very well.
All of the M14's, M14 clones and M1A's are made of 8620. That is the same as all M1 Garands after July 1942. Early receiver production used WD Steel No. 3115. Intermediate production runs used WD Steel No. 3120. After July, 1942, receivers used WD Steel No. 8620 Modified, the same as for the bolt. https://m1-garand-rifle.com/history/...ld-armory.html
The Polytech receivers were forged and clearly the best of the Chinese M-14's. Triggers and bolts not so much. Federal Ordnance M14A's tended to have spotty HT with some being very soft. I rewelded the lugs on two Fed Ord's after the lugs setback with only a couple of hundred rounds fired. After being welded and reheated they were fine. Cast is most common. Forged and billet machined have been produced by various companies at various times.
Cast, forged or billet machined they all work well if properly heat treated and built to proper tolerances. If you want forged LBR has them. https://www.lrbarms.com/m14-receivers--actions.html
https://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=39705&page=2
This information is incorrect. The information that the receiver steel is made of Series 5100 steel was based on incorrect information. Which has since been corrected.
Chinese receivers are made of Chinese equivalent to US 8620 steel, which is the proper steel for M1 Garand and M14 receviers. Series 5100 steel is not proper for receivers.
Last week I found an article on line by Lee Emerson(aka "Different") that was about 7 years old, and it gave the 5100 series steel information, but his books state 8620 steel, and say that series 5100 steel is not proper for receivers.
I sent him a question regarding that discrepency, and his reply was that the original 5100 comment was based on bad information. Based on newer information he has changed his articles and his book to state that Chinese made receviers are made with proper series 8620 steel.
They are also heat treated properly, with a heat treatment range from about 41 to 60 HRC. USGI receivers are heat treated at 48 - 60 HRC.
I have the 2nd Edition of Different's book(M14 RIFLE HISTORY AND DEVELOPEMENT), and it has the correction in it. p.209.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-22-2023 at 01:29 AM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Back in the day when the M1 Garand was still a competitive service rifle I barreled and chambered at least 8 in 308/7.62x51. None ever had any issues related to being chambered in 308.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
My gunsmith did do the rockwell hardness testing surface areas of my polytech receiver and IIRC was mostly between about 55 to almost 60. The bolt was about 40 and I switched that out to a trw if recall initials that I got from the cmp. I also replaced the trigger group and spring guide to get some 922r compliance parts in the gun. I was not sure if the 922r is still important but apparently it is specifically mentioned in the new ATF brace rule for foreign made pistols so it still applies. The original headspace was quite generous if someone was using 308 saami spec, but field gauge for 7.62 did not chamber.
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