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Thread: revolvers without adjustable sights

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    My 1967 S&W 10-5 is pinpoint accurate with any boolit at least 158 grains. Anything less still shoots well but prints low. Strangely, my 1988 Service Six is not as accurate but pretty close to POA with every boolit I've tried in it.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Why fixed? Why not? Snubbies are meant for close range. I would not mind a 'shotgun rib' and bead on one. Get or load ammo that shoots to POI.

    Anything 4" or longer revolver barrel and I'd like to have adjustable sights. Same with an semi-auto for me. Sub-compact for fixed sights and larger adjustable.

  3. #23
    Boolit Man
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    To raise the point of impact on a fixed sight revolver without modifying it one must look to heavier bullets as well as lower velocity to generate more recoil and muzzle rise while the bullet makes its trip down barrel. To lower the impact, lighter and faster bullets are needed.

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy
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    Cast bullets from my 158 grain lee mold 20 parts lead 1 part pewter over Hogdgon 700. on this particular day. I have been diagnosed with cataracts and was having trouble seeing the half round front sights on both of the victories. I have always developed a load for each rifle and have not been doing so with the handguns. Do they need to have a tuned load to shoot, or can I just find the right load and get something that will be good?

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    I think before I go too crazy I need to try shooting on a much brighter day(very overcast on Friday). I need to figure out glasses, Readers or distance? and get a few sessions shooting the handguns to get steady. I need to do a separate target for each gun. And try some of my other hand loads and factory ammo in all of them.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master hoodat's Avatar
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    Ebb, please don't take offense here, but you are shooting 38 S&W, not 38 Special in the Victory models aren't you?? jd
    It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Victory models were made in both .38 Special and .38 S&W.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebb View Post
    Cast bullets from my 158 grain lee mold 20 parts lead 1 part pewter over Hogdgon 700. on this particular day. I have been diagnosed with cataracts and was having trouble seeing the half round front sights on both of the victories. I have always developed a load for each rifle and have not been doing so with the handguns. Do they need to have a tuned load to shoot, or can I just find the right load and get something that will be good?
    I have a dozen and a half revolvers chambered for the 45 ACP. No, I do not have a tuned load for each, nor is one necessary. You should be able to easily find one load that shoots well in both of yours.

    Besides, when I was competing in PPC, Federal 38 S&W Special Match Ammunition was the hot ticket to shoot. It was accurate in everyone’s revolvers.

    Kevin
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    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

    Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
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    Sounds like I need to get the recipe for that Federal load, jacketed bullets or cast? Is the powder and charge weight available?

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I have a pair of Colt SAA’s that I “butchered”. In order to get the guns to shoot to POA I had to file the sights. My guns are tools and I needed these pistols to shoot a mouse fart 125 gr load to POA at 10 yards for CAS.

    So, “butchering” them was acceptable to me.

    None of your guns are “precious” so my advice is decide what load you want them to perform with. Do you want light plinking loads or maximum performance for self defense?

    You can likely find a load that will shoot to POA by playing with bullet weight and speed without “butchering” it but is that what you want?
    Don Verna


  11. #31
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    In line with what Don said, you can adjust a fixed sighted revolver to shoot to point of aim. But it will be restricted to that one load. Other loadings and bullets (or boolits) will very likely not shoot to the same point of aim. And some will diverge a long ways.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebb View Post
    Sounds like I need to get the recipe for that Federal load, jacketed bullets or cast? Is the powder and charge weight available?
    Not to butt in on friend Kevin, but in my PPC days at least, the Federal and Remington target loads for 38 Special were lead wad cutters, usually swaged HBWCs and were referred to as Mid Range Wad Cutters. We reloaded for them with 148 gr HBWCs over cat sneeze loads of Bullseye, HP 38, and 700X. I can’t remember ever seeing a jacketed 38 Special round fired in PPC, but if I had, we would have labeled that guy a newbie!

    If I were to unlimbers my old K-38 for some serious target work, it would be fed my reloads, flush seated 148 gr HBWCs over 3.2 gr of Bullseye or an equivalent charge of HP 38. (700X has gotten too expensive and hard to find around here.). Oh yeah, I just remembered I used some Green Dot successfully too... I’ve got a bunch of that left from my flirtation with shotshell reloading.

    Froggie
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  13. #33
    Boolit Grand Master

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    It takes a little load development and testing to find what combination of bullet weight and velocity will get the ammo on target . But all service revolvers , like the Victory model , were regulated for the ammo used / issued at that time ...usually 158 gr. Round Nose , standard velocity 38 special .
    The new Taurus may be regulated for one of the newer Self-Defense weights of ammo ...
    If the owners manual has no info ... call Taurus and ask .
    It takes a little load development but you will soon find a load your fixed sighted revolvers like .
    Gary
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  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
    It takes a little load development and testing to find what combination of bullet weight and velocity will get the ammo on target . But all service revolvers , like the Victory model , were regulated for the ammo used / issued at that time ...usually 158 gr. Round Nose , standard velocity 38 special .
    The new Taurus may be regulated for one of the newer Self-Defense weights of ammo ...
    If the owners manual has no info ... call Taurus and ask .
    It takes a little load development but you will soon find a load your fixed sighted revolvers like .
    Gary
    ie, My model 85 38 Taurus...(mfg Date???) shoots 158 grain weight, cast boolits, to POA Elevation, at 725 to 750 fps

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    All my snubbies do great with Lyman 148 grain wadcutters over 3 grains Bullseye so that's what I feed 'em!
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master slughammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebb View Post
    .......I need to figure out glasses, Readers or distance?

    .........And try some of my other hand loads and factory ammo in all of them.
    Get some readers. The sight picture should be clear. Target blurry is OK. Go to the drug store and try all the readers. Hold pill bottles at arms length and read the fine print.

    I wouldn't waste my money on factory ammo. A 158gr boolit from a Lee mold sized at .358 should shoot an accurate group in both those guns.

    What powder from Hodgdon and what is the charge weight?

    Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk
    Happiness is a couple of 38's and a bucket of ammo.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
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    When I first started shooting fixed-sight revolvers in CAS a decade or so ago, I filed and bent sights, certain that my revolvers weren't shooting straight. Then my desire to hunt with my revolvers dictated that I shoot a longer ranges which was 50 yds. at the time. As my shooting technique developed in order to make hits at longer ranges, I discovered that it wasn't my revolvers that weren't shooting straight, it was me. As such I had to have the front sights replaced on a couple of my SA revolvers and start all over.

    What I've found since then is any well made revolver loaded with a load that's reasonably ballistically close to the original load in which the revolver was chambered, should shoot very close to POA. But, load a lighter than standard bullet, POI will drop, load a heavier bullet and POI will likely be higher, though I don't see as much vertical change when switching to a heavier bullet. In my experience some calibers seem more susceptible than others with the 45 Colt at the top of that list.

    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Besides the fact that getting one that shoots perfectly to POA is like winning the lottery, the other problem is fixed sights, usually being a frame cutout are tiny and reflective. They are a half step better than no sights at all.

    Personally I hate that they are still the norm on small revolvers. The only revolver I still own with fixed sights is an LCR. If I could get one with adjustable sights I would, even for pocket carry. Novak dovetail sights would be ideal, I don't understand why they aren't standard yet.
    I don't have anything against adjustable sights at all other than for field/hard use they can be fragile. Many years ago I bought a Ruger Security Six at a giveaway price because half of the rear sight blade was broken off. Who knows how that happened? I've had two revolvers that I carried around the place, an H&R 929 and a Rossi Model 68, both of which had windage-only adjustable rear sights, and both of which I discovered, when I went to use them, had lost their rear sights. Adjustable sights are great for use at the range and usually, but not always offer a better sight picture than fixed sights.

    To the OP, if you revolvers aren't collectible, something I found that really help with the older half-moon sights is the application of a Swiss file-



    This really removes glare from the sight and makes it stand out.

    Some time back on another forum people were discussing the perpetual subject of fixed-sight revolvers "shooting left". A sage old CAS competitor and Colt SAA collector suggested that the next time one attended a gun show, to look close at used revolvers with adjustable sights. He allowed that one would find that the vast majority of them are adjusted to the right to compensate for right handed shooters "pushing" the trigger when they shoot. I don't go to many gun shows so I hied off to Gunbroker to look at auctions for revolvers with adjustable sights. By gum, the old codger was right!



    35W
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    There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand.

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  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35 Whelen View Post
    … To the OP, if you revolvers aren't collectible, something I found that really help with the older half-moon sights is the application of a Swiss file-…
    35W
    A very good observation.

    This is a S&W Model 1917 that has had the front sight modified,

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    This is a S&W Model 1950 Army,

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    And yes, this is an adjustable sighted revolver, but what good is a front sight if you can not see it? My most recent S&W Model 25-2.

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    Kevin
    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

    Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master Baltimoreed's Avatar
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    Fixed sight martial revolvers, either military or police, single or double action, are minute of man firearms and not designed for target shooting. But at some point most manufacturers offered them with some kind of adjustable sight system. Target Webleys had a drift rear sight and a different height front sight insert for the lighter .450 ammo. Kings converted a ton of both cf and rf revolvers and autos to beautiful upgraded very accurate target guns. It’s just a matter of making the ammo fit the fixed sights or use Kentucky windage. I personally like half moon front sights and would never file on one. I shoot a bunch of martial revolvers and don’t have a problem with them.

  20. #40
    Boolit Buddy
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    I can count on zero fingers the number of times in the last 30 years I've actually adjusted sights on a handgun. So, at this point, it's mostly a don't care with a slight preference for fixed sights. Less to go wrong.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check