Modern 45-120 sharps @ 2700yd

[Wolfdog91]

I absolutely love the idea of take old cartridges like this and putting modern tech to them and seeing what could be possible! What can I say reinventing the wheel and constantly trying to do stuff that's not "practical" or difficult always tickles me pink
But anyway Mark and Sam are ELR shooters from Australia and do all sorts of stuff like this and I just find it absolutely fascinating! Their lastest of this modern 45-120 sharps ELR build is pretty dang cool if I must say !


Now I just hope they build a .22hornet and try it for NRL next

[Alstep]

There was an article a number of years ago in the Black Powder Cartridge News about the Battle of Adobe Walls.
A guy named Billy Dixon took a long shot at some Indians on a ridge nearly a mile away. Someone did some research about that incident, and duplicated that shot with a Sharps rifle at a military proving grounds, where they tracked the bullet's flight on radar. The shot was indeed possible.

[BrassMagnet]

Friends of Billy Dixon

https://gunblast.com/AndyTuttle_FOBD.htm

[stubshaft]

Interesting video, thanks for sharing.

[M-Tecs]

While I do find people with real skills pushing the limits fascinating I am not seeing that in this video.

I do see a spotter with limited shot spotting ability and zero wind reading ability.

I do see a shooter that appears not to understand why the scope has windage and elevation knobs. Same for his wind reading abilities or lack thereof.

I do not see either the spotter or the shooter trying to read the conditions and or mirage if the wind is under 12 mph.

The equipment is very nice. The Barnard actions are as good as it gets. The shooter's and the spotter's ability to utilize the top-notch equipment not so much.

[megasupermagnum]

I think they are just a couple out having fun. Hopefully nobody though they were anything but that. They are just out having fun, trying new guns and ammo. I do wish they would move the targets closer though. I've only seen 6 of their video's, and I have not seen them hit a target yet.

[M-Tecs]

I think they are just a couple out having fun. Hopefully nobody though they were anything but that. They are just out having fun, trying new guns and ammo. I do wish they would move the targets closer though. I've only seen 6 of their video's, and I have not seen them hit a target yet.

I will take your word for it. One was enough for me.

The optics and mounts alone are pushing $5,000. The Banard action only is around $1,400. The chassis stock is another $1,000 to $1,600. With barrel cost, installation, muzzle break, bipod and rear rest they have well over $8,000 in that setup.

Poking and hoping (in my experience) is really not that much fun. Being part of a good shooter/spotter combo is lots of fun. When done properly the shooter only has two tasks. First is to break the shot cleanly. Second is to accurately call his shot and express that to the spotter/coach so the spotter/coach can adjust accordingly. The spotter is responsible for elevation and windage setting to the point where the shooter does not fire until the spotter tells him to send it. If conditions change the spotter holds the shooter until the conditions come back or the proper correction is conveyed to the shooter either as hold off or actual scope adjustments. For a non-moving targets elevation is normally always done with actual scope adjustments verse holdoffs. Windage is more based on conditions and shooter/spotter preferences but actual adjustments were the standard until first focal plane scopes be common.

Team matches at 600 and 1,000 yards are the most fun I've had competitively shooting. It's a ton of fun coaching a shooter to a clean at distance during changing conditions. Same for shooting a clean for a good spotter/coach. In these type matches roles are reversed so both shoot and spot/coach. As a shooter if a good spotter/coach improves your score you have confirmation that your wind reading needs work. Same if the shooter you are coaching scores are below normal.

Done properly it's a ton of fun and a real learning experience. What they are doing in the video not so much.

[Wolfdog91]

I will take your word for it. One was enough for me.

The optics and mounts alone are pushing $5,000. The Banard action only is around $1,400. The chassis stock is another $1,000 to $1,600. With barrel cost, installation, muzzle break, bipod and rear rest they have well over $8,000 in that setup.

Poking and hoping (in my experience) is really not that much fun. Being part of a good shooter/spotter combo is lots of fun. When done properly the shooter only has two tasks. First is to break the shot cleanly. Second is to accurately call his shot and express that to the spotter/coach so the spotter/coach can adjust accordingly. The spotter is responsible for elevation and windage setting to the point where the shooter does not fire until the spotter tells him to send it. If conditions change the spotter holds the shooter until the conditions come back or the proper correction is conveyed to the shooter either as hold off or actual scope adjustments. For a non-moving targets elevation is normally always done with actual scope adjustments verse holdoffs. Windage is more based on conditions and shooter/spotter preferences but actual adjustments were the standard until first focal plane scopes be common.

Team matches at 600 and 1,000 yards are the most fun I've had competitively shooting. It's a ton of fun coaching a shooter to a clean at distance during changing conditions. Same for shooting a clean for a good spotter/coach. In these type matches roles are reversed so both shoot and spot/coach. As a shooter if a good spotter/coach improves your score you have confirmation that your wind reading needs work. Same if the shooter you are coaching scores are below normal.

Done properly it's a ton of fun and a real learning experience. What they are doing in the video not so much.

I must ask and I do this with the upmost respect, but , have you shot ELR or have you watched any or their videos where their explaining some of this ?

[M-Tecs]

I must ask and I do this with the upmost respect, but , have you shot ELR or have you watched any or their videos where their explaining some of this ?

Yes and no I have not watched any of their videos other than the one you posted.

I prefer people that have been there and done that as repeatable record holders like David Tubb and Emil Praslick both of which I have shot with and had dinner with several times. Bryan Litz is another one to study and learn from but I have never met the man.

[M-Tecs]

Some more good ones to follow.

[M-Tecs]

How a good team works. Note the difference in how they do it verse Mark and Sam.

[Wolfdog91]

Some more good ones to follow.

Listed to that one three times since it came out the other day! Love this podcast along with the vortex one. Tried listing to the podcast applied ballistics was trying and idk just didnt really do well with me. Felt really discombobulated.
Think Jack neary has been my absolute favorite so far
Hope he gets Tubb on soon because after watching him run is course at king of two miles just wow ! Will say though..he's..... Had to describe but definitely different. Go the feeling of I ever got the chance to talk to him I'd be so out of my element it wouldn't be funny lol ! Snipers had did a pod cast with him and found it pretty cool. Really I ted in his nose ring tool. Definitely an out of the box thinker.

[Wolfdog91]

How a good team works. Note the difference in how they do it verse Mark and Sam.

Seems the same to me honestly. That being said they have their own tweak on it the same why most teams of anything will. Pretty sure Paul mentioned it in his interview discussing short hand communication. Sam tells him what she know he needs and he's doubling as a shooter and wind coach for him self. That's just how they do it. It was him or one of the other ELR guys. But they have their own little system for what they do. And honestly what they do just seems like fun . I'm pretty sure that's why they don't do any competition or anything. They like building and thinking and just having fun
Also side note from my understanding they don't constantly dial because their using hold over more then anything which from watching the king of two miles com footage and listing to alot of these guys on podcasts is actually pretty common. Forgot the logic behind it but it's like an initial dial in for a rough zero then it's hold over from there . Seems to be the reason so many use Christmas tree rets .

[Alstep]

Here's some excellent articles about shooting from some of the best. Altho about shooting high power in this day and age, the advise given applies to all rifle shooting.

https://thecmp.org/training-tech/sho...ce-rifle-team/

http://www.odcmp.org/0107/default.asp?page=USAMU_WIND2

There's also some excellent books out there that deals with long range shooting.

Wolfdog, I see you're located in MS. You might want to take a trip east to the CMP shooting facility in AL and attend a shooting class and attend a match if you're so inclined. Would be a great experience.

The learning never stops in shooting skills.


Wolfdog, I see in your video, one of the coaches is Sgt. Emil Praslik. He's one of the best out there. He shot & coached for the AMU, and several Palma teams. When he talks, it's worth your while to listen.

[Wolfdog91]

Here's some excellent articles about shooting from some of the best. Altho about shooting high power in this day and age, the advise given applies to all rifle shooting.

https://thecmp.org/training-tech/sho...ce-rifle-team/

http://www.odcmp.org/0107/default.asp?page=USAMU_WIND2

There's also some excellent books out there that deals with long range shooting.

Wolfdog, I see you're located in MS. You might want to take a trip east to the CMP shooting facility in AL and attend a shooting class and attend a match if you're so inclined. Would be a great experience.

The learning never stops in shooting skills.

It's act on my list to do one of those along with one of those black powder shoots. Mabye Flass but not sure about that. I absolutely love rifle shooting in most of its forms. And really wish we had some kind a competitions around here . Dont really care too much about winning but competition is just plain fun . Heck would love to give myself a $1200 budget see what I could cobble together and see how it could preform at a match lol !
Working on a new job so hopefully I'll be able have more money to fuel the addiction.

[M-Tecs]

Seems the same to me honestly. That being said they have their own tweak on it the same why most teams of anything will. Pretty sure Paul mentioned it in his interview discussing short hand communication. Sam tells him what she know he needs and he's doubling as a shooter and wind coach for him self. That's just how they do it. It was him or one of the other ELR guys. But they have their own little system for what they do. And honestly what they do just seems like fun . I'm pretty sure that's why they don't do any competition or anything. They like building and thinking and just having fun
Also side note from my understanding they don't constantly dial because their using hold over more then anything which from watching the king of two miles com footage and listing to alot of these guys on podcasts is actually pretty common. Forgot the logic behind it but it's like an initial dial in for a rough zero then it's hold over from there . Seems to be the reason so many use Christmas tree rets .

The hold over you refered to is when they run out of elevation adjustments with normal scopes. Mark and Sam are using a Charlie Tarac so that should not be an issue.

Same maybe? If it was the same they should get the same results, however, the results are very different. Others are getting consistent hits sometimes with a cold bore while Mark and Sam are not after repeated attempts.

Maybe that why they don't compete. Like life efforts count for little verse actual results.

[Wolfdog91]

The hold over you refered to is when they run out of elevation adjustments with normal scop[es. Mark and Sam are using a Charlie Tarac so that should not be an issue.

Same maybe? If it was the same they should get the same results, however, the results are very different. Others are getting consistent hits sometimes with a cold bore while Mark and Sam are not after repeated attempts.

Maybe that why they don't compete. Like life efforts count for little verse actual results.

Or maybe it's just what they enjoy doing for fun . If you look at their channel it's basically " hey let's see what this cartridge will do with a little upgrade at this crazy distance"
Some people just like playing mad scientist and filming the results and sharing I mean heck I know that's what I do on my YouTube.

Also we need to look at what their doing verses others . Their slinging a 45-120 sharps .... How many of the serious elr guys are using that ? And for good reason. They don't 30-30 as well and alot of other cartridges most of which are just palin not optimized for what their doing. Where as most of what's guys like Tubb , Paul or litz are using are mostly purpose made for that application.
Basically their just sitting what you can do to a softball to see if you can make it work like a base ball or similar

[M-Tecs]

Or maybe it's just what they enjoy doing for fun . If you look at their channel it's basically " hey let's see what this cartridge will do with a little upgrade at this crazy distance"
Some people just like playing mad scientist and filming the results and sharing I mean heck I know that's what I do on my YouTube.

Also we need to look at what their doing verses others . Their slinging a 45-120 sharps .... How many of the serious elr guys are using that ? And for good reason. They don't 30-30 as well and alot of other cartridges most of which are just palin not optimized for what their doing. Where as most of what's guys like Tubb , Paul or litz are using are mostly purpose made for that application.
Basically their just sitting what you can do to a softball to see if you can make it work like a base ball or similar

And that would be my point. They are basically doing a clown show in hopes of getting enough views to make money off of it verse showing real skills and knowledge. What else would you call investing $8,000 or so in a purpose-built rifle using a cartridge that is woefully inadequate for that application? A case can be made that they are showing how not to do it but most already knew that.

Not really any different than building a state-of-the-art indy car and putting a model T engine in it.

[Wolfdog91]

Having fun, experimentation, doing something I quit enjoy and sharing it with other like minded people .

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