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Thread: Emergency Home Generator

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy Brokenbear's Avatar
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    I don't think I have seen a bad idea yet and I certainly can understand using using natural gas as the #1 energy source if you are not setting on a major fault zone ..and I could buy into $54 500 gallon tank rental but would have what $1000 plus sitting there staring at me but I freely admit to doing it if above ground tans were allowed where we like but we cannot and buying and burying 500 or propane tank gets high dollar reel quick plus in my case still a fault zone concern

    For you guys who are using gas gensets I have provided a link to a real game changer ..a battery powered transfer pump with automatic shut off just like a service station pump.. No wrestling full 5 gallon gas cans to carefully fill the genset..no spills what so ever ..no wrestling full 5 gallon gas cans to your vehicle when it is time to rotate your back up fuel supply and you NEVER spill a drop
    This thing runs on 4 AA batteries which i have yet to replace (fully cycled out my 60 gallon supply to my vehicles) and it comes with adapters to fit most plastic 5 gal cans
    I am sure there are others but I know this one is awesome for sure ..I estimate it takes about 3 min to pump 5 gal in my vehicle with the can on the ground and the nozzle in the fill spout ..when the 5 gal can is on equal or near level with the nozzle it will empty in less than 2 min

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...0?ie=UTF8&th=1

    Another game changer is the garden hose reel that I mounted on a rack to unreel and wind up a very heavy power cord

    Bear

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by metricmonkeywrench View Post
    That's the quandary, If you home already operates off gas (tanked or piped) its an easy decision. We unfortunately have neither, in our rural area there are not enough homes to be worth running a utility gas line (we just got cable something like 5yrs ago after a large housing development was built down the road). I would love to switch the house to gas but that would require a whole house upgrade for heat, Hot water and cooking surfaces which is an extremely high investment. We currently run a boiler for heating and residential use and electric stove/cooktop. I did at one time have delusions of finding a diesel stand by generator and run it off the heating oil tank (DF2) but given the costs involved and the amount of fuel consumed that idea fell by the wayside.

    Mama's plan eventually is for a whole house system and i will likely set up a pair of twin 100's to fuel it to keep it simple. I believe propane installs require a pro for insurance reasons. We did learn in last years northern storm when the power went out for a couple days 20lb exchange propane tanks became real hard to find.
    Not enough homes out here for natural gas either. Even the closest small town is not connected to natural gas. Every home is on propane. 500 gallon tank or larger. Been that way for many, many years. Before that, homes were heated with fuel oil, and before that it was wood or coal.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    A 500 gallon tank will be considered full at 400 gallons, the extra space allows for changed in volume due to temperature changes. Here propane is currently $2.19 per gallon. Purchasing a tank will be just over $6 per gallon, makes renting reasonable.
    Spell check doesn't work in Chrome, so if something is spelled wrong, it's just a typo that I missed.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brokenbear View Post
    For you guys who are using gas gensets I have provided a link to a real game changer ..a battery powered transfer pump with automatic shut off just like a service station pump..
    I got small el-cheapo one that has clamps for the car battery. I like it.
    Sometimes I have to pull fuel out of the boat, and it floats lower than the dock.

    Getting gas from the car with the piece of fuel line hose is OK--- here, we call that a Oklahoma credit card.
    But the electric pump sure is handy.
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  5. #25
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by metricmonkeywrench View Post
    That's the quandary, If you home already operates off gas (tanked or piped) its an easy decision. We unfortunately have neither, in our rural area there are not enough homes to be worth running a utility gas line (we just got cable something like 5yrs ago after a large housing development was built down the road). I would love to switch the house to gas but that would require a whole house upgrade for heat, Hot water and cooking surfaces which is an extremely high investment. We currently run a boiler for heating and residential use and electric stove/cooktop. I did at one time have delusions of finding a diesel stand by generator and run it off the heating oil tank (DF2) but given the costs involved and the amount of fuel consumed that idea fell by the wayside.

    Mama's plan eventually is for a whole house system and i will likely set up a pair of twin 100's to fuel it to keep it simple. I believe propane installs require a pro for insurance reasons. We did learn in last years northern storm when the power went out for a couple days 20lb exchange propane tanks became real hard to find.
    I'm in rural VA also. Changed over the old house from fuel oil to propane furnace and heat pump was the best thing we ever did to the old crib ! Would like to have a propane Generac but not in the budget yet !

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooterg View Post
    I'm in rural VA also. Changed over the old house from fuel oil to propane furnace and heat pump was the best thing we ever did to the old crib ! Would like to have a propane Generac but not in the budget yet !
    Best thing I ever did was getting the Generac house generator and a dedicated 500 gal propane tank. Power got knocked out Friday from my area into Maryland for well over six hours. That is a long time with no furnace running in this cold. Saved my butt multiple times over.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    I installed a 10 K Generac , test runs every Friday ,change oil every year and done/Ed

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    I like your shed and setup you have. That’s my next step to complete my generator. I have the Champion Tri-Fuel model. It works great, but it is hard to start. I only use natural gas and do have 3 Propane tanks on stand by if needed.
    Mine is truly portable right now. I wheel it from garage to the pad behind the house and hook up to the electric box mounted to the home. From there I’m wired to the panel in the house.
    I use a product called CordPro to store my gas and electric line. Keeps it all nicely stored ready for use.
    The issue is the hard starting. They do need to be “exercised” weekly to keep the battery charged and I’m just not doing that. I need to get better with this. Once running it will power the home and potential for more.
    What is the name of the shed you have?
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  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Went with an 13 KW LP Generac at the house in WI. Ran the well, heat (both LP furnace and outdoor wood boiler), and enough lights and receptacles to keep fridge and a few kitchen items on in an emergency. Automatically cycles weekly and was easy to install if you have basic electrical skills. This was in 2001 and IIRC cost about $2500. We were on LP already so no need to buy or rent a tank.

  10. #30
    Boolit Bub
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    We went with a 18 KW Winnco PTO driven generator, have it mounted on a trailer so its easy to tow it over to my son & daughter-in-laws, or my Moms if needed there. It does require at least 30 PTO hp but our 50 hp diesel tractor will happily keep it at max output for less than a half gallon an hour. Maybe not the most efficient, but the portability is awesome, and any of our farm tractors will power it fine.
    B.G.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Rapier's Avatar
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    If you want reliable backup, reliable is the true working idea, go with vapor and not liquid. I went with two 1,000 gallon buried propane tanks with cross over connections. Sounds like over kill, but also went with spray foam insulation on 3 buildngs, heated by propane. So the generator runs all of the electric at one time, except the heavy draw equipment like the three phase Bridgeport in my shop, I leave the heavy stuff off. But does cover the deep well pump on start up with the three buildings operating. I have a 23 KW air cooled Generac System runs and has run for weeks straight.
    Forgot, I have battery backups on all electronic equipment, cleans up the power output and saves the delicate stuff.
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  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy Brokenbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailcaptain View Post
    I like your shed and setup you have. That’s my next step to complete my generator. I have the Champion Tri-Fuel model. It works great, but it is hard to start. I only use natural gas and do have 3 Propane tanks on stand by if needed.
    Mine is truly portable right now. I wheel it from garage to the pad behind the house and hook up to the electric box mounted to the home. From there I’m wired to the panel in the house.
    I use a product called CordPro to store my gas and electric line. Keeps it all nicely stored ready for use.
    The issue is the hard starting. They do need to be “exercised” weekly to keep the battery charged and I’m just not doing that. I need to get better with this. Once running it will power the home and potential for more.
    What is the name of the shed you have?
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    Suncast Stow-Away 6X4X4 sits on framed 2x4's with patio sand packed and then solid half blocks laid tight ..then 4 anchors thu the floor of the shed into the concrete blocks ..inside of the shed is a "Horse anti skid mat" (heavy 7/16" mat to absorb sound and vibration)(Tractor Supply)
    That OSB board box takes air in the top from outside (grated and screen intake) ..air runs thru baffles and exits out the bottom of the box to flow air across the genset

    https://www.menards.com/main/outdoor...355324&ipos=12

    By the way ..I am having trouble understanding a portable natural gas ??? but then again i don't know anything about natural gas but I do know it still has to have air intake for any gas to burn so get yourself a can of starting fluid ..pop off the air breather ..squirt a shot of starting fluid in the intake and it will start

    I do know natural gas is the least energy of the three and takes longer to fill the voids in the system so when the engine starts on the starting fluid it will suck in and pass thru the dead air and then will quicky intake explosive NG and air mix (internally in the engine) and then run on it's own without any additional starting fluid
    Bear
    Last edited by Brokenbear; 01-23-2023 at 11:19 PM.

  13. #33
    Boolit Grand Master

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    When I retired in 2015 I bought a 22KW Generac with an automatic transfer switch. Natural gas was available and was very dependable so thats what I went with. If there were any issues with natural gas I would have gone with propane and a 500 gallon tank. I looked at every option and that was the one that I liked best. I looked at inverters on my diesel truck, inverters on my diesel tractor, PTO generators on my tractor, hauling diesel, hauling gas, moving portable generators, messing with extension cords, ect. I just didn't want the hassle.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    My ten year old 22KM propane Generac has been running since 11:15 PM, last evening. Lost power from the snow storm were having. I have a 1000 gallon underground tank. It's filled to the 90% level, because it's buried. You must own your tank to bury it and to negotiate the best price on propane. If you rent, your stuck buying propane from whomever your renting from, at an inflated price.

    Winelover

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    NG and propane also use different jet sizes so those have to be swapped before switching from one fuel to the other.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA sez - Mainboy did it RIGHT! If yer out in the boonies, PROPANE / GENERAC......

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    Brokenbear, sorry for the late response. Lots going on here. But I deeply appreciate your help.
    As far as Portable Natural gas, thats not what I have. I have a 3/4” Natural gas line out to my generator pad, piped directly from my homes natural gas service.
    I’ve never heard of using Starting Fluid first sprayed into the air cleaner but I will try it tomorrow. My fingers are crossed in hopes it helps. Thank you for your response and help.
    I’ll updated you as to what I find.
    Your are complete correct that Natural Gas is the lesser of the three fuels that can be used. But in my case, you would never know it. I am amazed at the amount of systems I can use once the generator is connected. So when needed, I have completed confidence I can keep the home up to use for the basic needs.
    Last edited by sailcaptain; 01-27-2023 at 07:38 PM. Reason: more detail
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  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy
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    Brokenbear,
    You are 100% on target. Tried your suggestion of a shot of starting fluid in the intake and it started. Never had such ease of starting as I did this morning.
    I knew I had a can of the stuff in the garage somewhere, just had to go hunting for it. I only had a small amount left in the can and hoped it would be enough….The tiny shot of starting fluid was so small I’ll still have this can for years!
    No….I went and treated myself to new can today.
    Thank you for the help and guidance.
    Great advice!
    Zucca 1:1 Kill Your TV

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    I spent a lot of my career building high end residential, more than 20 years now. Every job I've built, but one, has had emergency backup power and at the end of the day, after all the discussion with the architects, homeowners and engineers, the choice has, (but for one), always been LP for fuel, and anything over 1,000 gallons is nearly always underground tanks. I've supervised the installation of systems up to 11,900 gallons.
    Depending on where you live, and how much propane you use on a regular basis, your supplier may provide the tank. At home I have an LP Rinnai heater, (backup for the solar when we are out of town), an LP on demand water heater and an LP kitchen range. Based on that usage model our local supplier provided a 500 gallon above ground tank. If I had a traditional home and was using LP for heat they would have provided a 1,000 gallons tank. If all the LP you are using is the backup "emergency only" generator, they may not see you as consuming enough fuel on a regular basis to make it practical to provide you a bulk tank at their expense. But it is definitely worth discussing it with them. If they are truly "local" they may agree to providing a tank based on your wife's medical needs. For a small generator like you are considering, assuming you are not in the frozen north, the fuel storage requirement is simple math, gallons per hour consumed by your generator, at the required load, times the number of hours you believe you will need to get you through the power outage. Below the northern tier of the US an above ground bulk tank should work fine.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    About 10 years ago a neighbor had a whole house Generac, dedicated propane generator installed. His entire house was electric, geothermal furnace, elec range and water heater. 500 gallon propane tank was exclusively used for the generator. Of course, the generator starts and runs for about 10 minutes once a week to keep the battery charged. Now, this guy was a "snowbird" that spent the cold months south of the Mason/Dixon line. A couple years after he had his generator and propane tank installed we had a minor power outage in the "colder months", only about 4-5 hours, but I noticed that his generator did not automatically start. I gave him a call and told him that the power was out but his generator wasn't running.
    Within a couple days I saw a couple guys checking out his system, went to talk with them to find out what the problem was.....
    It turns out the neighbor never checked the oil level in the engine, or checked the amount of fuel in the propane tank.......

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